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@Windows97 said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
@Kiwiwomble And like I said I'm not decrying your personal experience, nor have I suffered any negative experiences in my life.
I'm questioning whether your "real word" experience is actually representative of what's happening across the globe.
You yourself have said you view is not representative of what's happening across the globe.
But whenever I say I don't think your real world experience is representative of what's happening across the globe you get annoyed with me.
I basically don't buy your "vocal minority" call.
You can present me with information to prove otherwise, but I think you will find that the number of people being affected (i.e. forced redundancy, forced to step aside from public office, forced to go to court) by your so called "extremists" is actually going up and exponentially so - which would prove me right.
I'm happy to be proven wrong - but I need more than "in my personal experience" to convince me.
this is where i bow out, we've gone past any discussion into the realm of misrepresenting what is being said to justify an having argument
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@Kiwiwomble said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
@gt12 said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
I like this board; there are well-argued positions on both sides showing that this shouldn’t be an all or nothing requirement.
If clubs want to have diversity jerseys, just ask the players to wear them and if some don’t that’s fine. In my personal opinion, I think it makes them look like jackasses, but many others would disagree, which is why it shouldn’t be forced on people.
i often feel like one of the more "liberal"/"woke" (depending which side of the fence you sit) members of the board but I thought they should have just been able just wear the normal jersey, the difference would have been negligible on TV or even from the stands.
I'll be walking in the Midsumma Pride march here in Melbourne this weekend and so i would like to think i talk with quite a few people in the LGBTQI+ community....and i dont think i came across anyone IRL that wanted those guys to lose thero jobs or anything, the overwhelming majority of people i talk too would LIKE everyone to be openly and actively supportive. Regardless of what some of us would like to think it IS still hard being OUT in lots of ways and so active support in the form of these kinds of PRIDE initiative does achieve a lot....but no one ive met IRL wants to force people to do things they feel so uncomfortable about
Shame you tapped out of the conversation because I'd be interested is hearing what you think a pride parade would actually achieve . I know corporates love to fly the pride flags because its a really easy way to boost their ESG scores but there's never been a more accepting place and time to be gay than there currently is in the west.
Josh Zseps makes a pretty solid case for the whole concept being passed its use by date and its long ceased to be worthwhile . https://play.acast.com/s/uncomfortable-conversations-with-josh-szeps/do-we-need-gay-prideThe other part of this and is more relevant to the thread is the selfishness of the current LBGT movement . Andrew Sullivan has pointed out a few times in countries like Poland and Hungary which are far less open to the lbgt movement campaigners there face an uphill battle because their counterparts in the west are doing their opponents work for them. If they try and get more of their rights recognised its pretty easy for the more conservative side of the country has to share a video of cops twerking in a pride parade , or drag queen story time or an athlete being socially ostracized and his career ruined because he won't wear a symbol at odds with his personal values.
One last thing , @Stargazer in one of your posts on this topic you seem to want to live in the world described in Demolition man . You know that a was a satire right? The only thing it had going for it was Sandra Bullock in a leather cops uniform.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
@No-Quarter i think the clubs and governing organisation as just as likely to be swayed by a bit of media hyperbole as anyone else...and so react
re transgender people in sport....i just dont know, and thats why i dont participate in that thread, i dont know what the right answer is, i dont know enough about everything and see both side of things, but i know know whats right and so largely keep my mouth shut
I appreciate your thoughts on this, and you staying engaged in the discussion as long as you have. These are not easy issues to discuss, and the consequences of putting forth an opinion can be pretty dire.
One thing I will say is you haven't really addressed any of the points in my post. They are serious issues, that are happening in the real world, and when it comes to things like women's rights and the protection of children, "I don't know" doesn't really cut it from someone that has been a vocal supporter of the movement.
I know you wearing a rainbow flag and attending pride parades doesn't mean you are in favour of what I've talked about, and that you do it because you know and love people that are LGBT, which is commendable. But there are wider implications with the movement in its current form. It has become more and more extreme, and the consequences of calling out the extreme elements have been what JK Rowling is going through. Now Rowling doesn't really care, as she has both pretty tough skin and a billion dollars in the bank, but for most people it's just not worth sticking your head above the parapet. But at the same time we see the erosion of women's rights and people's lives ruined because they had irreversible hormone treatment and surgery as children.
I'm extremely uncomfortable with the direction this is headed, and I think it's critically important that people who are heavily involved with the movement are calling out the extreme elements and distancing themselves from them. There will inevitably be a backlash otherwise.
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@voodoo I do have a sense of foreboding about the whole movement, the 'T' part has really spawned off into a pseudo-science religious cult that is having real world consequences for people.
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@Chester-Draws said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
That's my experience at a church school.
The Polynesian kids really don't care about your sexual choices, if you don't force it.Folau and Folau senior aren't Polynesian?
Maybe I am from a different generation (one that without thinking expected All Blacks to be heterosexual so its time has passed) as I went to school with Polynesians (some of them related to me!) and my recall of their stance was a little more varied, and further afield the UK Parliament has reported on this topic
https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-9502/CBP-9502.pdf -
@voodoo said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
@No-Quarter nah, you’re overreacting bro.
Nothing to see here
The water was cold?
I haven't made up my mind on this but siding towards women shouldn't be forced to see the meat and 2 vege when changing...perhaps there should be individual cubicles only? Oh the cost!
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Oh FFS. Why don't you all just grow up?
Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions