New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2
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@KiwiPie said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@Cyclops said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
It wasn't the two Blairs (Hartland and Pocock) was it? Not sure if they played enough games though. They were bad enough that Bryan Young was considered a reliable opener for a period though.
Pocock is a YES - Hartland is poised on 9 games though with the outstanding average of 16.83
I suspect Hartland won't get to add to that tally of 9 games.
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@Cyclops said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@KiwiPie said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@Cyclops said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@KiwiPie said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@Cyclops said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
It wasn't the two Blairs (Hartland and Pocock) was it? Not sure if they played enough games though. They were bad enough that Bryan Young was considered a reliable opener for a period though.
Pocock is a YES - Hartland is poised on 9 games though with the outstanding average of 16.83
Trevor Franklin then? I remember being shocked by his average given the reverence that he and John Wright get as an opening pair (not that it's undeserved, shows how much the game has changed, and probably also how much our standards have risen)
Good call. Franklin it is. So just a 10 and 11 to name. Neither of them played this century if that helps ....
What about Dion Nash at 10?
Edit: maybe Simon '97 test wickets' Doull at 11?
No and no. Older than them.
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@Cyclops said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@KiwiPie said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@Cyclops said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
It wasn't the two Blairs (Hartland and Pocock) was it? Not sure if they played enough games though. They were bad enough that Bryan Young was considered a reliable opener for a period though.
Pocock is a YES - Hartland is poised on 9 games though with the outstanding average of 16.83
Trevor Franklin then? I remember being shocked by his average given the reverence that he and John Wright get as an opening pair (not that it's undeserved, shows how much the game has changed, and probably also how much our standards have risen)
Before I became such a stats nerd Trevor Franklin was always one of my favourites, not sure why cos he was no Davey Warner in terms on getting the run rate going....
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@MN5 said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@Cyclops said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@KiwiPie said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@Cyclops said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
It wasn't the two Blairs (Hartland and Pocock) was it? Not sure if they played enough games though. They were bad enough that Bryan Young was considered a reliable opener for a period though.
Pocock is a YES - Hartland is poised on 9 games though with the outstanding average of 16.83
Trevor Franklin then? I remember being shocked by his average given the reverence that he and John Wright get as an opening pair (not that it's undeserved, shows how much the game has changed, and probably also how much our standards have risen)
Before I became such a stats nerd Trevor Franklin was always one of my favourites, not sure why cos he was no Davey Warner in terms on getting the run rate going....
He did his best to survive the new ball in the late 80's, I'm thinking that was probably a good reason why
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@Donsteppa said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@MN5 said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@Cyclops said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@KiwiPie said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@Cyclops said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
It wasn't the two Blairs (Hartland and Pocock) was it? Not sure if they played enough games though. They were bad enough that Bryan Young was considered a reliable opener for a period though.
Pocock is a YES - Hartland is poised on 9 games though with the outstanding average of 16.83
Trevor Franklin then? I remember being shocked by his average given the reverence that he and John Wright get as an opening pair (not that it's undeserved, shows how much the game has changed, and probably also how much our standards have risen)
Before I became such a stats nerd Trevor Franklin was always one of my favourites, not sure why cos he was no Davey Warner in terms on getting the run rate going....
He did his best to survive the new ball in the late 80's, I'm thinking that was probably a good reason why
His cricinfo bio is hardly full of praise for the poor bugger
Lanky New Zealand opener Trevor Franklin knew only one way to play, and it didn't involve too many horizontal-bat shots. In 21 Tests he scored his runs at a rate of 27 runs per 100 balls. That equates to 1.6 runs per over, and makes him slower than those great blockers Chris Tavaré (33) and Jimmy Adams (38). But despite boring spectators and bowlers into submission Franklin was a popular figure, mainly because he was so unlucky with injuries. Most famously, he had his leg shattered when he was run over by a luggage trailer at Gatwick Airport in 1986, and he didn't play a Test for nearly two years. He wasn't endowed with good luck. On that tour he also broke a thumb, and in 1991-92 had his forearm smashed by David Lawrence. Even though it did take seven hours, his first and only Test hundred, against England at Lord's in 1990, was extremely well received
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@Smudge said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@KiwiPie said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@Cyclops said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
It wasn't the two Blairs (Hartland and Pocock) was it? Not sure if they played enough games though. They were bad enough that Bryan Young was considered a reliable opener for a period though.
Pocock is a YES - Hartland is poised on 9 games though with the outstanding average of 16.83
I suspect Hartland won't get to add to that tally of 9 games.
My memories of Blair Hartland is of him getting about as many runs off his helmet as he did off his bat.
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@Godder said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
Franklin and Wright had tremendous stats as a pair.
Is John Bracewell our highest averaging 10? No real idea for 11, but guessing some random old timer like Collinge.
According to who ? were our standards really that bad that words like that get thrown around ?
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@MN5 said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@Godder said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
Franklin and Wright had tremendous stats as a pair.
Is John Bracewell our highest averaging 10? No real idea for 11, but guessing some random old timer like Collinge.
According to who ? were our standards really that bad that words like that get thrown around ?
Yes. Wright and Edgar are usually seen as the NZ gold standard of the era, but Wright and Franklin had much better stats as a pair (as distinct from their individual stats).
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@MN5 said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@Donsteppa said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@MN5 said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@Cyclops said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@KiwiPie said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@Cyclops said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
It wasn't the two Blairs (Hartland and Pocock) was it? Not sure if they played enough games though. They were bad enough that Bryan Young was considered a reliable opener for a period though.
Pocock is a YES - Hartland is poised on 9 games though with the outstanding average of 16.83
Trevor Franklin then? I remember being shocked by his average given the reverence that he and John Wright get as an opening pair (not that it's undeserved, shows how much the game has changed, and probably also how much our standards have risen)
Before I became such a stats nerd Trevor Franklin was always one of my favourites, not sure why cos he was no Davey Warner in terms on getting the run rate going....
He did his best to survive the new ball in the late 80's, I'm thinking that was probably a good reason why
His cricinfo bio is hardly full of praise for the poor bugger
Lanky New Zealand opener Trevor Franklin knew only one way to play, and it didn't involve too many horizontal-bat shots. In 21 Tests he scored his runs at a rate of 27 runs per 100 balls. That equates to 1.6 runs per over, and makes him slower than those great blockers Chris Tavaré (33) and Jimmy Adams (38). But despite boring spectators and bowlers into submission Franklin was a popular figure, mainly because he was so unlucky with injuries. Most famously, he had his leg shattered when he was run over by a luggage trailer at Gatwick Airport in 1986, and he didn't play a Test for nearly two years. He wasn't endowed with good luck. On that tour he also broke a thumb, and in 1991-92 had his forearm smashed by David Lawrence. Even though it did take seven hours, his first and only Test hundred, against England at Lord's in 1990, was extremely well received
His name on the Honours Board at Lords. Top work that man.
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@KiwiPie said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
And for extra cricketing fun, which 2 openers who played 10 games or more have the lowest average? There are 15 averaging below 30 so there are a few to choose from!
The Braces coaching era will have a few; he was pretty pig headed and those guys had multiple lives. How, Cumming, Bell, Papps.
Spearman for sure was sub 30 with one century but may have only played 8-9 tests?
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@rotated said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@KiwiPie said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
And for extra cricketing fun, which 2 openers who played 10 games or more have the lowest average? There are 15 averaging below 30 so there are a few to choose from!
The Braces coaching era will have a few; he was pretty pig headed and those guys had multiple lives. How, Cumming, Bell, Papps.
Spearman for sure was sub 30 with one century but may have only played 8-9 tests?
Spearman never got a test ton, only an ODI one (might have managed 2 in the end?)
The problem with the Bracewell era wasn't so much the multiple lives as it was the musical chairs. Each of those four had an much talent as Raval does (How probably more), but never got time to settle (and all except maybe Papps, lacked Raval's application).
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A right-handed opening batsman, Spearman made his international debut for New Zealand in a Test Match in December 1995 against Pakistan at Christchurch. He was never able to secure his spot in the side and only scored one Test hundred, an innings of 112 against Zimbabwe.
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@Cyclops said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
Spearman never got a test ton, only an ODI one (might have managed 2 in the end?)
As Tim pointed out he did (barely) against the Zimbots. The partnership with Twose is one of the rare 200 opening stands which is why it's lodged in the memory bank. Also was going to a lot of games at EPII those years and was always a big Spearman fan.
The problem with the Bracewell era wasn't so much the multiple lives as it was the musical chairs. Each of those four had an much talent as Raval does (How probably more), but never got time to settle (and all except maybe Papps, lacked Raval's application).
Agree with that. It was almost a rock paper scissors type scenario. Generally we had three types of openers during that period; natural talents, red ball specialists and domestic cricket dominators (with some cross over between the latter two).
We would pick a natural talent on a mix of style and ODI form like Vincent, get frustrated with him then decide we needed someone who was tailor made for the longer version of the game (i.e. is bereft of scoring shots)... enter Michael Papps, oh he literally gives his wicket away in frustration after making 3 off 30... we need someone who is a proven commodity at making big scores in four-day cricket Matthew Bell has put together two big seasons with the bat we can bring him back... oh just because you can score double tons in the Shell Trophy doesn't mean you can at test level we need someone who has proven they can handle international bowling... Jamie How had a good ODI series against England let's slot him in... round and round we go.
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@Chris-B said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
John Bracewell?
What about Richard Collinge - he had at least one good score at 11?
Chris picked it - John Bracewell at 10 and Collinge at 11 complete the team
Turner
Sutcliffe
Williamson
Taylor
Ryder
Coney
Cairns
Vettori
Smith
J Bracewell
Collinge
