Reason and Tuipulotu
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@Kirwan said in Reason and Tuipulotu:
@Damo said in Reason and Tuipulotu:
@No-Quarter said in Reason and Tuipulotu:
Libel is a pretty new area of law, and generally if someone threatens legal action a retraction will be published - BMac got the media to backtrack a lot when he threatened legal action following the Taylor captaincy saga.
Not to bring American politics into this as that is a toxic barrell of waste, but it will be interesting to see how the defamation case the Covington students legal team has filed against the Washington Post goes and whether that is successful.
A free media is a critical part of democracy, but at the moment they do get away with straight up lies too often.
Those cases are completely different.
Here Reason has made a statement that's either objectively true or false. If it's false, he's liable.
The other case revolves around an interpretation of an event. That is subject to an honest opinion defense (which Reason cannot claim).
Not to derail, but they are getting sued because they repeated statements that weren’t true, and had been shown not to be true by video before they published them.
Not only that they didn’t remove the articles from their website after they were found to be false.
Peter Theil is a kiwi , maybe he can do a Gawker on stuff on Tuipulotus behalf?
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@rotated said in Reason and Tuipulotu:
@No-Quarter said in Reason and Tuipulotu:
Libel is a pretty new area of law, and generally if someone threatens legal action a retraction will be published - BMac got the media to backtrack a lot when he threatened legal action following the Taylor captaincy saga.
It was defamation and the only case I remember was directed toward former John Parker who was making recommendations to NZC in the wake of that, hardly a journalist and hardly someone with the financial backing of a media organization.
edit: and after rereading some articles from around that time it wasn't even a publication, Parker essentially sent a white paper outlining his own thoughts of NZC's frailties around that time including the handling of the McCullum idea. Some of the recipients were in places of power in cricket thus the basis to bring a claim - but essentially it was a fern post sent by email (but properly spell checked and correctly formatted).
OK thanks - my memory obviously not up to scratch there...
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@Smudge said in Reason and Tuipulotu:
My spies tell me "lawyers" & "Mark Reason" have been mentioned in the same sentence in the Stuff offices in regards to this article.
Interesting, I wonder if they have the money to defend him when he’s clearly in the wrong?
NBR who’s financial position is similarly shitty at first tried to throw Matthew Hooten under the bus .
https://m.facebook.com/matthew.hooton.77/posts/1809551815788424
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@jegga It’s likely that Stuff has insurance cover for defamation in which case the insurance company could call the shots in terms of settlement. Not sure at what stage an editor would get them involved though, I imagine the lawyers would guide them on that. I’m not a lawyer but it looks to me like a clear libel. There’s no interpretation of the facts that supports his opinion so it was either careless and damaging or malicious and damaging. Either fails the “fair comment” defence.
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@JC said in Reason and Tuipulotu:
@jegga It’s likely that Stuff has insurance cover for defamation in which case the insurance company could call the shots in terms of settlement. Not sure at what stage an editor would get them involved though, I imagine the lawyers would guide them on that. I’m not a lawyer but it looks to me like a clear libel. There’s no interpretation of the facts that supports his opinion so it was either careless and damaging or malicious and damaging. Either fails the “fair comment” defence.
Maybe the 'editor' should have been involved much earlier and done some 'editing'?
My understanding was that was the job of an editor (or sub-editor) back in the day when news providers didn't just post opinion pieces.
A simple question to Reason of 'that's a strong comment there, can you support that with fact if required?' may have avoided any issue.
For what it is worth, I reckon Reason is just a lazy feck, came up with the concept about PTs captaincy and riffed of it with a shallow internet search where he misread about which sample was under dispute.
Public stocks are the answer here.
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@Toddy said in Reason and Tuipulotu:
@jegga nah, it's still there
Thanks for sparing me giving Stuff some clicks.
Apparently a lot of news outlets didn’t take earlier articles about Covington even after the truth became known which will do doubt be mentioned in the lawsuits. -
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@Kirwan said in Reason and Tuipulotu:
Any more whispers about this? Or don’t the Players Assocation and the NZRU give a shit about their players being slandered?
Did anyone make a complaint to the paper first - after that you can go to the Press Council (or whatever it's called).
Something should come of this. It's lazy, sloppy or cynical journalism, and most of them should cost someone
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@Toddy said in Reason and Tuipulotu:
There could also be a bit of truth to the story. Though you'd think that would be worth its own standalone article, rather than being tucked away in a bigger article.
This post shows why there should be further action. Reason has smeared his reputation and got basic facts wrong.
Look further up on the reports at the time to see what actually happened.
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@Kirwan absolutely. This was actually a legit nightmare case where the results were purely down to lab fuck ups. Only takes dickheads like Reason adding false info to keep it simmering away as a potential cover up etc. Not fair at all on Pat T. Really hope there is some legal action around this.
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@Kirwan I have read those articles and I don't understand why Reason wasn't dragged over hot coals for it. That's what makes it weird. Stuff even put this disclaimer at the bottom of Reason's original opinion when this all kicked off in 2017
Note: This column was written before the result of Patrick Tuipulotu's B-sample test, which was negative and fully exonerated the All Black. Drug Free Sport NZ boss Graeme Steel described that scenario, whereby the A-sample is positive and the B-sample is negative, as a "one in 10,000" occurrence.
Yet they are happy to run one two years later smearing Tuipulotu.
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Maybe Tuipolotu just wants to get on with playing rugby and can't be bothered wasting time and energy on replying to Reason. I'd say the latter was hoping against all hope that the NZRU would issue a statement, giving Reason yet more publicity. He's probably disappointed by the silence.
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@Toddy said in Reason and Tuipulotu:
There could also be a bit of truth to the story. Though you'd think that would be worth its own standalone article, rather than being tucked away in a bigger article.
Yes. That’s my original point.
I hope that Reason is lying. I really do.
But what if he’s not? The first complaint said stuff backs him and his research. That should not be ignored.
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@Billy-Tell said in Reason and Tuipulotu:
Maybe Tuipolotu just wants to get on with playing rugby and can't be bothered wasting time and energy on replying to Reason. I'd say the latter was hoping against all hope that the NZRU would issue a statement, giving Reason yet more publicity. He's probably disappointed by the silence.
Not a buyer at all. Never will be,
