Black Caps v Bangladesh
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@Chris-B Should have played Seifert but Stead stuck to his best side throughout that series although it would have made more sense to trial the guys in contention for the reserve spots (Seifret, Sodhi, Astle, Bundell, Young etc).
I'm not sold on Seifert at all and would rather make Nicholls the backup but it's probably too much to place on Nicholls since he is already covering batting positions 1-6. In saying that, Seifert is a similar batsman to Munro imo and Munro is a naff bowler while Seifert can keep so Seifert > Munro there.
I'm only going with three spinners because we are apparently playing at venues where spin is favoured so it would be wise to have more than one and a half options of Santner and maybe Williamson.
Last CWC we went with three bowlers and one keeper/batsman as our reserves (Mills, McCleghan, N McCullum and Latham) and don't see us changing that.
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@Sneakdefreak said in Black Caps v Bangladesh:
I'm not sold on Seifert at all and would rather make Nicholls the backup but it's probably too much to place on Nicholls since he is already covering batting positions 1-6. In saying that, Seifert is a similar batsman to Munro imo and Munro is a naff bowler while Seifert can keep so Seifert > Munro there.
Problem with Seifert is that he's only batted in two ODIs and never in the top order. So most likely they'd move Latham and have Seifert take the gloves and bat lower down.
Whereas Munro is arguably direct cover for Guptill, Nicholls, Neesham and CdG - and indirect cover for Little Kane and Rossco (Nicholls moving down). Admittedly somewhat shit cover - but, cover.
Agree that Stead was too conservative - especially against the Bangles. Although I guess he did rest Little Kane. I would have rested Boult instead of Henry in the last one, as well.
Overall, I don't think we've really got the quality to win this CWC - we've got just enough to possibly fluke it. I'd say a par performance would be scrapping into the play-offs...or perhaps even just missing out.
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps v Bangladesh:
Problem with Seifert is that he's only batted in two ODIs and never in the top order.
At this point that likely works in his favour. The book is out on Munro. Now I favour the chances of an unknown Seifert having a big knock that Munro whatever theoretical T20 form we thought he might have.
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@rotated I guess that the international analysts won't have looked at Seifert much might be an advantage in the short run.
Can't say I'd expect a great deal from either him or Munro - but, at this late stage, I'm thinking they'll both be there - I'm hoping neither will be required to play.
Bigger immediate concern is what we're likely to see from Nicholls when we're chasing 320+ to win. He's not shown much capacity to really go from ball 1.
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@Chris-B Against quality opposition ( e.g. Indians ) I don’t think CDG is such an effective allrounder. His batting technique looked at times very much tail end. Prefer both Neesham and Bracewell in the hitting role against quality attacks. However I think generally the alrounder role is overdone and we should have another bowler.
Guptill, Nicholls, Williamson, Taylor, Latham, Neesham, Santner, Southee, Henry, Ferguson, Boult.
Also think the short ball has been over used. Reducing the frequency with which it is bowled will allow it have more impact.
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@kev said in Black Caps v Bangladesh:
@Chris-B Against quality opposition ( e.g. Indians ) I don’t think CDG is such an effective allrounder. His batting technique looked at times very much tail end. Prefer both Neesham and Bracewell in the hitting role against quality attacks. However I think generally the alrounder role is overdone and we should have another bowler.
Guptill, Nicholls, Williamson, Taylor, Latham, Neesham, Santner, Southee, Henry, Ferguson, Boult.
Also think the short ball has been over used. Reducing the frequency with which it is bowled will allow it have more impact.
Hang on....just to clarify so I can retort with the appropriate level of outrage....
Are you saying Bracewell is a better batsman than CDGH ?
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@MN5 Not enough of a difference in that hitting role. The strike rate in terms of turning, winning or even finishing a game against quality opposition has been really low. Doug is a much better bowler and I would favour that skill in terms of team mix over batting. If our front 5/6 batters (if you include) Neesham fail we will lose anyway.
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@kev I think both Colins are "gambit" players. They'll come off occasionally and blitz an opposition - but regular failures come with the territory. BMac was similar, but a more reliable gambit.
I think we can afford - and probably need - one gambit player in the team for the CWC. Mainly because we don't have enough quality to consistently beat teams like India. Boult, Guppy, Kane and Rossco will usually get us across the line against the mediocre teams, but someone like CdG is a roll of the dice to help us beat India, Australia, England and South Africa. He might only come of two times in 10 - but, maybe those times will be in the semi and final!
That's my strategy anyway. I don't think Doug Bracewell's bowling is going to win us a world cup.
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Dialling back any expectations for this world cup. Will still hang on every ball but we are really quite inconsistent at the moment.
Might even scour my memory for coping mechanisms used 10 years ago when we were woeful, for our upcoming shock loss to Afghanistan spinners on the 8th of June. 😏CdG to surprise all and be one of our best performers on English conditions
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@Siam said in Black Caps v Bangladesh:
CdG to surprise all and be one of our best performers on English conditions
We're hoping a hitter like him finds a couple of weeks of good form, and just rides his luck to the final.
But yeah, not expectant of this cup
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@nzzp he does take advantage of any juice in the wicket. I wouldn't be surprised if he was pretty effective alongside our other seamers. Still don't see Santner being much of a threat in terms of wicket taking, nor Astle. But luckily they can both bat pretty well...
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The spinner revolving door selection policy continues.
Pretty unfair on Ajaz IMO, who has done little wrong and Astle doesn’t exactly scream ‘pick me’. Will offer more in the batting department though.
Every coach has their favourite and it’s looking like Astle is Stead’s man.Thought Neesham might have got a look in, he’s a far superior batsmen than CdG
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@Paekakboyz said in Black Caps v Bangladesh:
@nzzp he does take advantage of any juice in the wicket. I wouldn't be surprised if he was pretty effective alongside our other seamers. Still don't see Santner being much of a threat in terms of wicket taking, nor Astle. But luckily they can both bat pretty well...
you're acting like not taking wickets is a new thing for a BC spinner....
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@Gunner said in Black Caps v Bangladesh:
The spinner revolving door selection policy continues.
Pretty unfair on Ajaz IMO, who has done little wrong and Astle doesn’t exactly scream ‘pick me’. Will offer more in the batting department though.
Every coach has their favourite and it’s looking like Astle is Stead’s man.Thought Neesham might have got a look in, he’s a far superior batsmen than CdG
Neesham is a bit of a funny one. if he was just a slightly better bowler in my opinion he'd be one of the first names down on the team sheet. In true Black Caps fashion he is listed as an all rounder but is he ? I can't see him being anything more than a guy who'll average about 30-35 with the bat at six and bowl here and there and to be honest we're actually too good a team to carry someone like that .
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@Gunner said in Black Caps v Bangladesh:
The spinner revolving door selection policy continues.
Pretty unfair on Ajaz IMO, who has done little wrong and Astle doesn’t exactly scream ‘pick me’. Will offer more in the batting department though.
Every coach has their favourite and it’s looking like Astle is Stead’s man.Thought Neesham might have got a look in, he’s a far superior batsmen than CdG
Astle was sort of the encumbent but lost his place through injury.
Ajaz probably paying the price for not getting a single test wicket yet in NZ conditions which includes the Sri Lanka second innings batathon at the Basin.
In my opinion you can through a blanket over Astle, Santner, A Patel, Sommerville in the test spinner's role and I could make an arguement for each of them. Sodhi I would now just use as a white ball player for the next x number of years.
I like Astle, I also like the look of Sommerville. I look forward to watching him play, but I'm not pretending where anywhere close to having the spinner's position nailed down.
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@Rapido but that is kind of the problem isn't it. Each of these guys has a short run, and either gets injured or doesn't shine. So we go to the next guy that's running hot for NZ A or domestically. But ultimately none of them are really nailing it across NZ and overseas conditions... which I guess brings it back to why they go 'meh, who bowls better in NZ or X overseas conditions, and who is the better batsman"?
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@Paekakboyz said in Black Caps v Bangladesh:
@Rapido but that is kind of the problem isn't it. Each of these guys has a short run, and either gets injured or doesn't shine. So we go to the next guy that's running hot for NZ A or domestically. But ultimately none of them are really nailing it across NZ and overseas conditions... which I guess brings it back to why they go 'meh, who bowls better in NZ or X overseas conditions, and who is the better batsman"?
Don't think I agree.
I think they've been fairly consistent.
From when mark Craig overtook Ish Sodhi on the Windies tour in 2014. They've gone:
Mark Craig: Kept in the team for 2 years, 14 tests. A little bit of overlap with next guy Mitch Santner who's initial entry to the team was a batting allropunder at 6.
Mitch Santner: 2 years, 17 tests. Probably still the actual encumbent. Injured.
Todd Astle: 2 tests, then injured.
Ish Sodhi: 3 tests, during which he got outperfromed by his second spinner (Ajaz), so was replaced.
Ajaz Patel: 5 tests (3 of them as No1 spinner), then replaced by returning Astle.Also in there, on away tours of India and the UAE they have played 2 spinners (or 3 spinners):
- in Santner's reign. Sodhi, Jeet Patel and Mark Craig also played on tour of India when we played 3 spiiners on bunsen burners.
- in Sodhi/A Patel's tour of UAE; Sommerville got a test as the second spinner.
IMO, the only spinners to ge releagated from number 1 pick for form/performance reasons were Craig and then Sodhi.
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