Other Cricket
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"In the first 25 matches of his test career, from his debut in March 2008 to the middle of the tour of England in May 2013, Southee took 81 wickets at an average of 34 and a strike rate of 64.
"In the next 25, from the final match of that 2013 tour to the end of the tour of Zimbabwe in August 2016, he took 91 wickets at an average of 31 and a strike rate of 63.
"Then in his last 23 matches, from the tour of South Africa in August 2016 to the end of India's visit in March, he has taken 112 wickets at an average of 24 and a strike rate of 49."
Okay the next person who tries claiming that Southee is past it or a journeyman at Test level is wearing my walking stick - the metal cored one
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@SynicBast I'll give you a really good example of how stats can be misleading.
In the Perth and Melbourne tests last year Southee was statistically our seond best bowler with the quality figures of 12 wickets at 25.75. However, he's an opening bowler. A strike weapon. In the first innings in Perth his first wicket was Matthew Wade. They had 225 on the board. His next wicket was at 325. Hardly the stuff of a genuine strike bowler (ie one who can help his team in all conditions). In the second innings he got David Warner with 44 on the board which was helpful but then next struck at 148. He very nearly claimed a ten-for in this match, FFS! But we were never in it, basically batted out of it in the first innings.
In Melbourne, he got three first innings wickets. Normally that's probably quite a useful return. Except the three were batting heavyweights Starc, Cummins and Lyon and his first was at 435. Nothing in the relatively brief second innings of this match although Wagner got three and even Mitchell Santner burgled a wicket.
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@shark said in Other Cricket 2020:
@Godder said in Other Cricket 2020:
I'd say that's more of an issue that Southee isn't an opening bowler, but he might be good for mopping up the tail.
You're not suggesting he could be selected on that basis?
Someone's got to clean them up, otherwise that's how you get McGrath making a test 50 against us.
Southee hasn't played every test - what are the equivalent figures like for Boult and any other opening bowlers we've tried?
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@shark those are outstanding numbers over a 12 year period. What the fuck does the guy have to do to get some much deserved recognition for what he’s achieved?
You could pick any bowler that has ever played a test and lay claims to why they’re shit and why their stats don’t tell the whole picture.
Jog on pal.
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@shark Selective incidents can allow one to make a claim that Hadlee was a shit bowler at one period because in one test he took no wickets because Chatfield, Cairns and Coney took all of them. Yes there is a difference in batting quality between top order and tail enders but these days being able to polish off the tail quickly/and or cheaply is a lot harder than it was - Wagner picks up an awful lot of lower order wickets but we don't criticise him for not knocking off the top order in droves more regularly.
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@Godder said in Other Cricket 2020:
@shark said in Other Cricket 2020:
@Godder said in Other Cricket 2020:
I'd say that's more of an issue that Southee isn't an opening bowler, but he might be good for mopping up the tail.
You're not suggesting he could be selected on that basis?
Someone's got to clean them up, otherwise that's how you get McGrath making a test 50 against us.
Southee hasn't played every test - what are the equivalent figures like for Boult and any other opening bowlers we've tried?
That's like saying a batsman who makes decent scores in lost cause innings should be selected because of that ability.
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@Gunner said in Other Cricket 2020:
@shark those are outstanding numbers over a 12 year period. What the fuck does the guy have to do to get some much deserved recognition for what he’s achieved?
You could pick any bowler that has ever played a test and lay claims to why they’re shit and why their stats don’t tell the whole picture.
Jog on pal.
He barely averages under 30, FFS. Open your blinkers: Southee is servicable but he isn't, and never has been, a genuine stike bowler. In 136 bowling innings he's taken five wickets or more just ten times. One ten-for in his entire career. It'd be interesting to see who those hauls were against, and the match results. And that's the good stuff.
The really negative stuff is his batting, which has attracted plenty of attention over the years and has had enough criticism already. I don't need to add to it, suffice to say Blind Freddie knows he's one of the most selfish and careless batsmen NZ has ever seen. Luckily, he's not there for that.
And the real nadir of his career are the various rumours that have followed him around. From his tour behaviour, specifically his reputation as an icorrigible 'swordsman' - by all accounts on par with the kind of behaviour which saw opening batsman Matthew Elliott axed from the Australian team after an Ashes tour in the 90s - to the rumour that he made himself unavailable for the third test in Sydney earlier this year after being told Tom Latham would be the skipper. The former apparently created a division in the team between those who thought his prolific rooting was ok, and those who felt it was wrong or potentially reputationally damaging for the NZ team.
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@SynicBast said in Other Cricket 2020:
@shark Selective incidents can allow one to make a claim that Hadlee was a shit bowler at one period because in one test he took no wickets because Chatfield, Cairns and Coney took all of them. Yes there is a difference in batting quality between top order and tail enders but these days being able to polish off the tail quickly/and or cheaply is a lot harder than it was - Wagner picks up an awful lot of lower order wickets but we don't criticise him for not knocking off the top order in droves more regularly.
Wagner isn't an opening bowler.
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@shark said in Other Cricket 2020:
Wagner isn't an opening bowler.
Wagner's a legend
I feel compelled to post something like this every time the name of one of my all time favourite cricketers comes up. I really wonder if he would have had a run at Test level if he played in SA - I suspect not given their rich depth of talent.
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@shark said in Other Cricket 2020:
@Gunner said in Other Cricket 2020:
@shark those are outstanding numbers over a 12 year period. What the fuck does the guy have to do to get some much deserved recognition for what he’s achieved?
You could pick any bowler that has ever played a test and lay claims to why they’re shit and why their stats don’t tell the whole picture.
Jog on pal.
He barely averages under 30, FFS. Open your blinkers: Southee is servicable but he isn't, and never has been, a genuine stike bowler. In 136 bowling innings he's taken five wickets or more just ten times. One ten-for in his entire career. It'd be interesting to see who those hauls were against, and the match results. And that's the good stuff.
The really negative stuff is his batting, which has attracted plenty of attention over the years and has had enough criticism already. I don't need to add to it, suffice to say Blind Freddie knows he's one of the most selfish and careless batsmen NZ has ever seen. Luckily, he's not there for that.
And the real nadir of his career are the various rumours that have followed him around. From his tour behaviour, specifically his reputation as an icorrigible 'swordsman' - by all accounts on par with the kind of behaviour which saw opening batsman Matthew Elliott axed from the Australian team after an Ashes tour in the 90s - to the rumour that he made himself unavailable for the third test in Sydney earlier this year after being told Tom Latham would be the skipper. The former apparently created a division in the team between those who thought his prolific rooting was ok, and those who felt it was wrong or potentially reputationally damaging for the NZ team.
So we're heaping scorn on players for inappropriate sexual behaviour now ?
Shit, someone better let Shane Warne know his status as a cricketing legend has been revoked.
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@shark said in Other Cricket 2020:
He barely averages under 30, FFS. Open your blinkers: Southee is servicable but he isn't, and never has been, a genuine stike bowler.
He's Simon Doull, basically. Good in swinging conditions, but otherwise middle of the road. Not bad by any stretch, but firmly in the solid journeyman category.
Interestingly, though, only slightly worse than Jimmy Anderson (who has longevity on his side for sure).
Tim Southee Profile - Cricket Player New Zealand | Stats, Records, Video
Read about Tim Southee cricket player from New Zealand profile, stats, rankings, records, videos, photos at ESPNcricinfo
Simon Doull Profile - Cricket Player New Zealand | Stats, Records, Video
Read about Simon Doull cricket player from New Zealand profile, stats, rankings, records, videos, photos at ESPNcricinfo
James Anderson Profile - Cricket Player England | Stats, Records, Video
Read about James Anderson cricket player from England profile, stats, rankings, records, videos, photos at ESPNcricinfo
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Possibly a nickname/sledge that's been around for ages, but I saw one of the Aussie Facebook cricket pages referring to "Jimmy Clouderson" for the first time last week. Overly harsh, but they take no prisoners across the ditch.
I'm not a noted fan of Southee. But I'm still shaking my head at opening the bowling at the SCG with Henry and CdG in our first ever Test match back there since 1683...
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remember at the start of his career, when Jimmy Anderson was pretty average? It seemed the only guy he got wickets against was us. He got better and better though. His seam release is almost perfect these days, what a swing bowler.
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@mariner4life He's someone who'll be appreciated more when he retires. Prboably the best swing bowler the game has ever seen, both with the duke and kookaburra.
