2020 All Blacks Squad
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@shark said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
I really hope the Blues sub Ioane at 60 mins every game next year and he still remains a mile off the All Blacks. I'm sick of hearing he's a flaming work horse and this has sabotaged an otherwise stellar AB career.
Why would you want this? He might be a missing piece to help strengthen the ABs, I would like to know either way and if he can be the goods we will all benefit. He's 24 FFS, Rodney So'oialo and JC didn't fully hit their straps until about 25. Rodney even had time out of the ABs for about 18 months to 2 years after a first taste of the black jersey, and in the end he had a very credible AB career. I know Kirwan and I disagree but I think a change of scene might be good. Either a move to the Chiefs (where he buddies up with Sam Cane) or the Canes (hangs out with Ardie). If he can get to the required level while at the Blues so be it, but if the new coaching panel comes in and he's still on the outer we can suspect it's not them it's him for some reason, and it's time for a move
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@canefan said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@shark said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
I really hope the Blues sub Ioane at 60 mins every game next year and he still remains a mile off the All Blacks. I'm sick of hearing he's a flaming work horse and this has sabotaged an otherwise stellar AB career.
Why would you want this? He might be a missing piece to help strengthen the ABs, I would like to know either way and if he can be the goods we will all benefit. He's 24 FFS, Rodney So'oialo and JC didn't fully hit their straps until about 25. Rodney even had time out of the ABs for about 18 months to 2 years after a first taste of the black jersey, and in the end he had a very credible AB career. I know Kirwan and I disagree but I think a change of scene might be good. Either a move to the Chiefs (where he buddies up with Sam Cane) or the Canes (hangs out with Ardie). If he can get to the required level while at the Blues so be it, but if the new coaching panel comes in and he's still on the outer we can suspect it's not them it's him for some reason, and it's time for a move
Really good question.
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@Nepia said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Machpants said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Nepia said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@shark said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Nepia said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@shark said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Kirwan said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Machpants said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Kirwan said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@canefan said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
I hope that someone can get a tune out of the Ioane brothers. We could do with them playing at full potential. Imagine a back row of Cane, Ardie and peak Akira
I’d back Jamie Joseph as AB forwards coach to do that for Akira, at least he won’t thrown him under the bus like Hansen did in that press conference.
Had an obvious impact on his NPC. Players are not robots, and some need to be handled differently to get the best out of them.
A little bit of the faith they showed in unproven players like Jacobson, Fifita and Frizzell could have had him humming for the World Cup and filled the six shaped hole in the squad.
They managed him poorly.
Nah they tried the softly softly previously when he was in the squad, and didn't work. So they tried the harsh words. Also didn't work
No they didn't, they tried an approach that screamed we don't trust you. He should have been tried in one of the tier2 games, like everybody else, so he could prove himself.
How they managed him singled him out from everybody else, and with the mismanagement from the Blues overdoing his workload, we ended up where we are now.
It amuses me how he gets stuck with the lazy tag when coach after coach plays him in every single game, for the full 80, and for the Blues he's the last line of defence on our goal line, often getting try saving turnovers deep into game (he gets a lot of practice at the Blues for that). He puts in a huge workload, often to the detriment to his chances at higher honors.
Dreaming bud. He's had several chances. They opened the door again when he last made a training squad and he fucked it up. Again. I'll bet he now turns up in 2020 smelling of pies and KFC.
What a crock of shit, he hasn't started a test despite being far and away the best number 8 in the country last year, as I mentioned earlier Evans was selected last year and he's as loose as fudge for an 8.
Reminds me a bit of Mains not thinking Zinny was up to it, but luckily back then, he basically had Fitzy force his hand to pick him.
Best number 8 in the country! That's absolute gold! Are you here all week? How do i get tickets!?
Did you watch any Super Rugby or NPC outside of Canterbury last year? It appears not.
By the latter half of the season, he was very average. Probably because he once again played every minute
This year definitely, not 2018.
Oh sorry, good point, thought talking most recently
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Let's be clear, if Ioane somehow does have a breakthrough year in 2020 and becomes the player that can be a successful AB 8, I'll be rapt because at the moment I think our best option is Luke Jacobson and he's an absolute rookie. He has many of the tools, and he has the size I personally crave in the position. What I don't get though is people saying he should have had more opportunity than he has, given he simply hasn't deserved it. And the best reasoning? Luke Whitelock has had caps. There are wild claims he has been the best 8 in NZ at times, which has never been the case, sans the occasional one-off game when he may have been the best in NZ for the period of a weekend, and this new theory that he's over-worked which has detracted from his AB claims.
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@shark said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
sans the occasional one-off game when he may have been the best in NZ for the period of a weekend
Why are you stupidly going on with this other than for trolling reasons or you in fact didn't watch any Blues or Auckland games last year other than ones involving the Crusaders?
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@Higgins said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@canefan The Canes option is not available given the signing of Murphy Taramai to fill their loose forward compliment of the squad.
Yeah, just talking in general terms. I just meant if there is a real problem, putting him with a senior AB might be beneficial
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@Nepia said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@shark said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
sans the occasional one-off game when he may have been the best in NZ for the period of a weekend
Why are you stupidly going on with this other than for trolling reasons or you in fact didn't watch any Blues or Auckland games last year other than ones involving the Crusaders?
Why are you stupidly, ignorantly and arrogantly persisting with this theme about Ioane's form as if I'm the only one in the world who doesn't think you're correct? And you're blatantly not. This opinion you have has surely been tinted by rose coloured glasses. Find me any media anywhere, where a commentator or journalist has stated Ioane is the best 8 in the country. Please. It won't be there. So by all means, advance your horrific opinion but don't try and belittle me as you attempt to re-write history and I stand in your way.
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@shark to your credit, not including paragraphs in your posts does make them read slightly deranged which matches the content nicely.
Multiple posters, from different franchises, are making similar points now. And we’ve been discussing his workload for over 18 months now, a weird claim to say that’s recent.
Need to read more than just the Crusader posts.
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https://stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/opinion/117130819/all-blacks-need-a-revamp-from-stale-pale-and-male
How about we pick the best coaches? Lam, Tana, Matson, really? Just because of their ethnicity? The Lam era at the Blues was futile, same with Tana. I dont care if a guy is red with yellow polka dots, if the person can coach then hopefully they get a chance on merit.
Who the hell is the guy writing this drivel -
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@canefan said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
https://stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/opinion/117130819/all-blacks-need-a-revamp-from-stale-pale-and-male
How about we pick the best coaches? Lam, Tana, Matson, really? Just because of their ethnicity? The Lam era at the Blues was futile, same with Tana. I dont care if a guy is red with yellow polka dots, if the person can coach then hopefully they get a chance on merit.
Who the hell is the guy writing this drivelA twat .
A mate sent me this article an hour ago, the Herald is running it too. Why does it have to be a polynesian or melanesian coach? You're still excluding a bunch of races , its probably just better to judge a coach on their ability not their race.
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@shark said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
An area we're sorely lacking in as things stand is grunt from the loose forward group. We have a proliferation of world-class openside flankers we seem to want to shoe-horn in ala Pooper and Smith/Waugh as we lack depth at 6, and as of 2020 we have a dire hole at 8 as well. (Still not dire enough to try Ioane though). Savea is an openside flanker, as of course is Cane. We need a couple of chunky lads in 6 and 8. Maybe Squire comes back and that helps, but we need a Fifita or Frizzell to stake a legit claim and/or a Blackadder to break through in SR. It's noticeable that throughout our game, loose forwards and locks are 'shrinking'. We first see our midget packs get beaten up by SA and England in the U20s and this has started to translate into the senior ranks. We have far too many blindside flankers playing as under sized locks in Super Rugby and even moreso in the NPC, and too few 8s and 6s regularly playing in those positions who have genuine size (around 1.92m+) and bulk. We also have stuff all 2m+ locks coming through (compared to around 10 - 15 years ago when we were flush in that department) and our openside flankers are on average getting smaller I reckon. Look at the emerging talent like Harmon and Kirifi. Harmon replaces another midget in Todd. Dillon Hunt isn't big either.
10-15 years our locks were rubbish, we had Ali and Jack and fuck all else. It wasn’t until Brad Thorn came back and Whitelock came onto the scene that we actually got decent there. Luckily BBBR followed BBBT so there was no drop off.
As far as i know Squire is off overseas too. Which is good because he definitely isn’t the answer to any questions we should be asking.
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@geebee said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Kirwan said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@canefan worst sort of woke drivel. Pick people for any job based on their ability, not sex or race.
like that happens in the real world.
I didn’t say it did. I’m saying what I think should be our aim.
Picking people based on race is a huge step backwards.
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@geebee said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@Kirwan said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@canefan worst sort of woke drivel. Pick people for any job based on their ability, not sex or race.
like that happens in the real world.
which coach was picked on their race not their ability?
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so will Joseph or Rennie fulfill the 'quota' of Coaches?
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@taniwharugby I selected the woke-est of coaching teams a week ago which covers all bases. Will keep the "merit" blokes happy and ensure 'representation of minorities (in coaching terms)' at AB level
.Rennie (PI, North Islander), Joseph (Maori, South Islander), Robertson (Pakeha and former Crusader player).
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@pukunui said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
@shark said in 2020 All Blacks Squad:
An area we're sorely lacking in as things stand is grunt from the loose forward group. We have a proliferation of world-class openside flankers we seem to want to shoe-horn in ala Pooper and Smith/Waugh as we lack depth at 6, and as of 2020 we have a dire hole at 8 as well. (Still not dire enough to try Ioane though). Savea is an openside flanker, as of course is Cane. We need a couple of chunky lads in 6 and 8. Maybe Squire comes back and that helps, but we need a Fifita or Frizzell to stake a legit claim and/or a Blackadder to break through in SR. It's noticeable that throughout our game, loose forwards and locks are 'shrinking'. We first see our midget packs get beaten up by SA and England in the U20s and this has started to translate into the senior ranks. We have far too many blindside flankers playing as under sized locks in Super Rugby and even moreso in the NPC, and too few 8s and 6s regularly playing in those positions who have genuine size (around 1.92m+) and bulk. We also have stuff all 2m+ locks coming through (compared to around 10 - 15 years ago when we were flush in that department) and our openside flankers are on average getting smaller I reckon. Look at the emerging talent like Harmon and Kirifi. Harmon replaces another midget in Todd. Dillon Hunt isn't big either.
10-15 years our locks were rubbish, we had Ali and Jack and fuck all else. It wasn’t until Brad Thorn came back and Whitelock came onto the scene that we actually got decent there. Luckily BBBR followed BBBT so there was no drop off.
As far as i know Squire is off overseas too. Which is good because he definitely isn’t the answer to any questions we should be asking.
The point being made isn't about whether we have world class 2m+ locks, but SR capable 2m+ locks, or are we generally a bit smaller than in that period. In and around the period I've mentioned we had Jack, Williams, Ryan (briefly), Eaton, Clarke, O'Neill, Donnelly, Ross and then Whitelock and Retallick emerging. If someone had the time and inclination to do the analysis I reckon the stats would back up my assertion. How many 2m+ guys will play SR next year? Or even 1.98m+ guys. And then how many games will Blackwell, Hemopo, Frizzell, Parete, Fifita etc etc play at lock?
