NZ All Time XI
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@ACT-Crusader said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@MN5 said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@TeWaio said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@MN5 said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
KW is so far and away our best ever batsman it’s not even funny…..
Look, Rossco, Crowe, Turner etc were all fine players but he’s on another level.
Him and Hadlee are the two names on our Mt Rushmore.
Tangent, who actually is our 4th Mt Rushmore after Kane, Hadlee and Crowe? I'm tempted to go with Baz.
It’s a level down but you’d have to pick from Rossco, Cairns, Vettori etc. that level of player. Australia would have about 20 at the Mt Rushmore level.
Baz is nowhere near. Not even a shoe in for an all time XI
Cairns? Yeah nah.
Boult definitely in the mix with Taylor and Turner.
Let’s never forget that during the magical run we had a left arm swing bowler putting us into positions to win test matches.
It’s always awkward arguing Cairns’s credentials on the fern but 18 big moments ( 5 for or century ) in 62 tests is up there with the best.
Plus he had some seriously crap teammates at various stages of his career.
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@MN5 said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@ACT-Crusader said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@MN5 said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@TeWaio said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@MN5 said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
KW is so far and away our best ever batsman it’s not even funny…..
Look, Rossco, Crowe, Turner etc were all fine players but he’s on another level.
Him and Hadlee are the two names on our Mt Rushmore.
Tangent, who actually is our 4th Mt Rushmore after Kane, Hadlee and Crowe? I'm tempted to go with Baz.
It’s a level down but you’d have to pick from Rossco, Cairns, Vettori etc. that level of player. Australia would have about 20 at the Mt Rushmore level.
Baz is nowhere near. Not even a shoe in for an all time XI
Cairns? Yeah nah.
Boult definitely in the mix with Taylor and Turner.
Let’s never forget that during the magical run we had a left arm swing bowler putting us into positions to win test matches.
It’s always awkward arguing Cairns’s credentials on the fern but 18 big moments ( 5 for or century ) in 62 tests is up there with the best.
Plus he had some seriously crap teammates at various stages of his career.
On pure cricketing, he'd be there as an allrounder. However, the off field stuff disqualifies him from my list.
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@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
J F Reid worth a look.
Figures not artificially boosted by playing weak sides and an average well in the 50s over 7 tests against PakistanJF or JR?
JF
Still sits at third place in our all time averages over 30 innings -
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@Rapido said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
Didn't realise JF Reid had passed away.
Neither, he would have been quite young still.
64 apparently. Cancer.
And I have to disagree with @crucial. Can't see JFR on Mt Rushmore. I'm struggling to see him in the 1st XI.
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@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Rapido said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
Didn't realise JF Reid had passed away.
Neither, he would have been quite young still.
64 apparently. Cancer.
And I have to disagree with @crucial. Can't see JFR on Mt Rushmore. I'm struggling to see him in the 1st XI.
As a kid I remember him in the team, he was a very consistent performer for a while, but I seem to recall his run not being that long. I certainly don't remember him the way I remember Astle or Andrew Jones for example. But I was older when they came along
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@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Rapido said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
Didn't realise JF Reid had passed away.
Neither, he would have been quite young still.
64 apparently. Cancer.
And I have to disagree with @crucial. Can't see JFR on Mt Rushmore. I'm struggling to see him in the 1st XI.
I can understand that we never really watched him but his batting stats are right up there if you were assembling a lineup. Would you really not select a player with our second highest batting average (over 30 innings). Higher than M Crowe and only below KW? Centuries playing away in Oz, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.
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@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Rapido said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
Didn't realise JF Reid had passed away.
Neither, he would have been quite young still.
64 apparently. Cancer.
And I have to disagree with @crucial. Can't see JFR on Mt Rushmore. I'm struggling to see him in the 1st XI.
I can understand that we never really watched him but his batting stats are right up there if you were assembling a lineup. Would you really not select a player with our second highest batting average (over 30 innings). Higher than M Crowe and only below KW? Centuries playing away in Oz, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.
Yes. He batted 3. He's behind KW, Crowe bats at 4, Roscoe has to drop to 5.
Reid was good, but not great.
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@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Rapido said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
Didn't realise JF Reid had passed away.
Neither, he would have been quite young still.
64 apparently. Cancer.
And I have to disagree with @crucial. Can't see JFR on Mt Rushmore. I'm struggling to see him in the 1st XI.
I can understand that we never really watched him but his batting stats are right up there if you were assembling a lineup. Would you really not select a player with our second highest batting average (over 30 innings). Higher than M Crowe and only below KW? Centuries playing away in Oz, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.
Yes. He batted 3. He's behind KW, Crowe bats at 4, Roscoe has to drop to 5.
Reid was good, but not great.
He only played 19 tests. Mitchell is up to 17 already and has been better.
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@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Rapido said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
Didn't realise JF Reid had passed away.
Neither, he would have been quite young still.
64 apparently. Cancer.
And I have to disagree with @crucial. Can't see JFR on Mt Rushmore. I'm struggling to see him in the 1st XI.
I can understand that we never really watched him but his batting stats are right up there if you were assembling a lineup. Would you really not select a player with our second highest batting average (over 30 innings). Higher than M Crowe and only below KW? Centuries playing away in Oz, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.
Barring disasters Mitch Jr and Conway will have that beaten.
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@MN5 said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Rapido said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
Didn't realise JF Reid had passed away.
Neither, he would have been quite young still.
64 apparently. Cancer.
And I have to disagree with @crucial. Can't see JFR on Mt Rushmore. I'm struggling to see him in the 1st XI.
I can understand that we never really watched him but his batting stats are right up there if you were assembling a lineup. Would you really not select a player with our second highest batting average (over 30 innings). Higher than M Crowe and only below KW? Centuries playing away in Oz, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.
Barring disasters Mitch Jr and Conway will have that beaten.
I get that. But we are talking in the present aren't we?
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@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Rapido said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
Didn't realise JF Reid had passed away.
Neither, he would have been quite young still.
64 apparently. Cancer.
And I have to disagree with @crucial. Can't see JFR on Mt Rushmore. I'm struggling to see him in the 1st XI.
I can understand that we never really watched him but his batting stats are right up there if you were assembling a lineup. Would you really not select a player with our second highest batting average (over 30 innings). Higher than M Crowe and only below KW? Centuries playing away in Oz, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.
Yes. He batted 3. He's behind KW, Crowe bats at 4, Roscoe has to drop to 5.
Reid was good, but not great.
And your openers are? Richardson? and ?
Sutcliffe?
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@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@MN5 said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Rapido said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
Didn't realise JF Reid had passed away.
Neither, he would have been quite young still.
64 apparently. Cancer.
And I have to disagree with @crucial. Can't see JFR on Mt Rushmore. I'm struggling to see him in the 1st XI.
I can understand that we never really watched him but his batting stats are right up there if you were assembling a lineup. Would you really not select a player with our second highest batting average (over 30 innings). Higher than M Crowe and only below KW? Centuries playing away in Oz, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.
Barring disasters Mitch Jr and Conway will have that beaten.
I get that. But we are talking in the present aren't we?
I don’t know myself half the time…..
Reid was very good but just didn’t play anywhere near enough to be considered for Mt Rushmore.
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@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Rapido said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
Didn't realise JF Reid had passed away.
Neither, he would have been quite young still.
64 apparently. Cancer.
And I have to disagree with @crucial. Can't see JFR on Mt Rushmore. I'm struggling to see him in the 1st XI.
I can understand that we never really watched him but his batting stats are right up there if you were assembling a lineup. Would you really not select a player with our second highest batting average (over 30 innings). Higher than M Crowe and only below KW? Centuries playing away in Oz, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.
Yes. He batted 3. He's behind KW, Crowe bats at 4, Roscoe has to drop to 5.
Reid was good, but not great.
And your openers are? Richardson? and ?
Sutcliffe?
Not Reid.
You'll note I purposely avoided naming openers.
I'm inclined to nominate Latham, but feel I'm influenced by recency bias.
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@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Rapido said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
Didn't realise JF Reid had passed away.
Neither, he would have been quite young still.
64 apparently. Cancer.
And I have to disagree with @crucial. Can't see JFR on Mt Rushmore. I'm struggling to see him in the 1st XI.
I can understand that we never really watched him but his batting stats are right up there if you were assembling a lineup. Would you really not select a player with our second highest batting average (over 30 innings). Higher than M Crowe and only below KW? Centuries playing away in Oz, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.
Yes. He batted 3. He's behind KW, Crowe bats at 4, Roscoe has to drop to 5.
Reid was good, but not great.
And your openers are? Richardson? and ?
Sutcliffe?
Not Reid.
You'll note I purposely avoided naming openers.
I'm inclined to nominate Latham, but feel I'm influenced by recency bias.
I don't know if it's the answer in an all time lineup but what I was getting at was that openers are arguably a weaker spot and maybe we shuffle the others to cover.
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@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Rapido said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
Didn't realise JF Reid had passed away.
Neither, he would have been quite young still.
64 apparently. Cancer.
And I have to disagree with @crucial. Can't see JFR on Mt Rushmore. I'm struggling to see him in the 1st XI.
I can understand that we never really watched him but his batting stats are right up there if you were assembling a lineup. Would you really not select a player with our second highest batting average (over 30 innings). Higher than M Crowe and only below KW? Centuries playing away in Oz, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.
Yes. He batted 3. He's behind KW, Crowe bats at 4, Roscoe has to drop to 5.
Reid was good, but not great.
And your openers are? Richardson? and ?
Sutcliffe?
Not Reid.
You'll note I purposely avoided naming openers.
I'm inclined to nominate Latham, but feel I'm influenced by recency bias.
I think the point I was making in my initial post was that we as a nation only have what I’d consider two all time legends of the game. A host of “very good” players would make up the rest of our all time XI.
Our neighbours across the ditch on the other hand would have to leave out some legendary batsmen. How do you get Bradman, Ponting, Smith, G Chappell, Border and S Waugh in the same side ?
England, Australia and the Windies would, at a guess, have about 15-20 of that talent level in their history.
India ? There’d be a few batsmen but fuck all bowlers.
Pakistan and SA would have a few.
Sri Lanka ? Murali, Sangakarra, Jayawardene would be about it.
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When looking at the credentials of any of the old timers you have to factor in that the players around them were all shite (in the main). Club cricketers with if they were luck one or two who might get a look in to today's team.
JRR would be ideally suited to the modern game and has to be considered for the all-rounders spot in our all time 11 (Hadlee not really being a true all-rounder).
JFR did the typical Kiwi thing of starting off really well. He retired before we found out if he was going to do that other Kiwi thing of rapidly turning to shit / getting found out and ending up with a career average in the mid 30's.
Anyways if the England test papered over the cracks, then the decorator is on double time. We are still more than a bit average but two great results!!!
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@dogmeat said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
When looking at the credentials of any of the old timers you have to factor in that the players around them were all shite (in the main). Club cricketers with if they were luck one or two who might get a look in to today's team.
JRR would be ideally suited to the modern game and has to be considered for the all-rounders spot in our all time 11 (Hadlee not really being a true all-rounder).
JFR did the typical Kiwi thing of starting off really well. He retired before we found out if he was going to do that other Kiwi thing of rapidly turning to shit / getting found out and ending up with a career average in the mid 30's.
Anyways if the England test papered over the cracks, then the decorator is on double time. We are still more than a bit average but two great results!!!
I suspect JF Reid with a FC average of 38 would have been found out. I remember the fantastic start that Mark Greatbatch had. You could argue Henry Nicholls did that too.
KW DEFINITELY has/had better teammates than Paddles ever did.
Paddles averaged more with the bat than John Morrison and Jeff Crowe for goodness sake.
