NZ All Time XI
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@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Rapido said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
Didn't realise JF Reid had passed away.
Neither, he would have been quite young still.
64 apparently. Cancer.
And I have to disagree with @crucial. Can't see JFR on Mt Rushmore. I'm struggling to see him in the 1st XI.
As a kid I remember him in the team, he was a very consistent performer for a while, but I seem to recall his run not being that long. I certainly don't remember him the way I remember Astle or Andrew Jones for example. But I was older when they came along
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@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Rapido said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
Didn't realise JF Reid had passed away.
Neither, he would have been quite young still.
64 apparently. Cancer.
And I have to disagree with @crucial. Can't see JFR on Mt Rushmore. I'm struggling to see him in the 1st XI.
I can understand that we never really watched him but his batting stats are right up there if you were assembling a lineup. Would you really not select a player with our second highest batting average (over 30 innings). Higher than M Crowe and only below KW? Centuries playing away in Oz, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.
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@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Rapido said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
Didn't realise JF Reid had passed away.
Neither, he would have been quite young still.
64 apparently. Cancer.
And I have to disagree with @crucial. Can't see JFR on Mt Rushmore. I'm struggling to see him in the 1st XI.
I can understand that we never really watched him but his batting stats are right up there if you were assembling a lineup. Would you really not select a player with our second highest batting average (over 30 innings). Higher than M Crowe and only below KW? Centuries playing away in Oz, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.
Yes. He batted 3. He's behind KW, Crowe bats at 4, Roscoe has to drop to 5.
Reid was good, but not great.
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@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Rapido said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
Didn't realise JF Reid had passed away.
Neither, he would have been quite young still.
64 apparently. Cancer.
And I have to disagree with @crucial. Can't see JFR on Mt Rushmore. I'm struggling to see him in the 1st XI.
I can understand that we never really watched him but his batting stats are right up there if you were assembling a lineup. Would you really not select a player with our second highest batting average (over 30 innings). Higher than M Crowe and only below KW? Centuries playing away in Oz, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.
Yes. He batted 3. He's behind KW, Crowe bats at 4, Roscoe has to drop to 5.
Reid was good, but not great.
He only played 19 tests. Mitchell is up to 17 already and has been better.
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@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Rapido said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
Didn't realise JF Reid had passed away.
Neither, he would have been quite young still.
64 apparently. Cancer.
And I have to disagree with @crucial. Can't see JFR on Mt Rushmore. I'm struggling to see him in the 1st XI.
I can understand that we never really watched him but his batting stats are right up there if you were assembling a lineup. Would you really not select a player with our second highest batting average (over 30 innings). Higher than M Crowe and only below KW? Centuries playing away in Oz, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.
Barring disasters Mitch Jr and Conway will have that beaten.
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@MN5 said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Rapido said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
Didn't realise JF Reid had passed away.
Neither, he would have been quite young still.
64 apparently. Cancer.
And I have to disagree with @crucial. Can't see JFR on Mt Rushmore. I'm struggling to see him in the 1st XI.
I can understand that we never really watched him but his batting stats are right up there if you were assembling a lineup. Would you really not select a player with our second highest batting average (over 30 innings). Higher than M Crowe and only below KW? Centuries playing away in Oz, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.
Barring disasters Mitch Jr and Conway will have that beaten.
I get that. But we are talking in the present aren't we?
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@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Rapido said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
Didn't realise JF Reid had passed away.
Neither, he would have been quite young still.
64 apparently. Cancer.
And I have to disagree with @crucial. Can't see JFR on Mt Rushmore. I'm struggling to see him in the 1st XI.
I can understand that we never really watched him but his batting stats are right up there if you were assembling a lineup. Would you really not select a player with our second highest batting average (over 30 innings). Higher than M Crowe and only below KW? Centuries playing away in Oz, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.
Yes. He batted 3. He's behind KW, Crowe bats at 4, Roscoe has to drop to 5.
Reid was good, but not great.
And your openers are? Richardson? and ?
Sutcliffe?
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@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@MN5 said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Rapido said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
Didn't realise JF Reid had passed away.
Neither, he would have been quite young still.
64 apparently. Cancer.
And I have to disagree with @crucial. Can't see JFR on Mt Rushmore. I'm struggling to see him in the 1st XI.
I can understand that we never really watched him but his batting stats are right up there if you were assembling a lineup. Would you really not select a player with our second highest batting average (over 30 innings). Higher than M Crowe and only below KW? Centuries playing away in Oz, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.
Barring disasters Mitch Jr and Conway will have that beaten.
I get that. But we are talking in the present aren't we?
I donāt know myself half the timeā¦..
Reid was very good but just didnāt play anywhere near enough to be considered for Mt Rushmore.
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@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Rapido said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
Didn't realise JF Reid had passed away.
Neither, he would have been quite young still.
64 apparently. Cancer.
And I have to disagree with @crucial. Can't see JFR on Mt Rushmore. I'm struggling to see him in the 1st XI.
I can understand that we never really watched him but his batting stats are right up there if you were assembling a lineup. Would you really not select a player with our second highest batting average (over 30 innings). Higher than M Crowe and only below KW? Centuries playing away in Oz, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.
Yes. He batted 3. He's behind KW, Crowe bats at 4, Roscoe has to drop to 5.
Reid was good, but not great.
And your openers are? Richardson? and ?
Sutcliffe?
Not Reid.
You'll note I purposely avoided naming openers.
I'm inclined to nominate Latham, but feel I'm influenced by recency bias.
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@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Rapido said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
Didn't realise JF Reid had passed away.
Neither, he would have been quite young still.
64 apparently. Cancer.
And I have to disagree with @crucial. Can't see JFR on Mt Rushmore. I'm struggling to see him in the 1st XI.
I can understand that we never really watched him but his batting stats are right up there if you were assembling a lineup. Would you really not select a player with our second highest batting average (over 30 innings). Higher than M Crowe and only below KW? Centuries playing away in Oz, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.
Yes. He batted 3. He's behind KW, Crowe bats at 4, Roscoe has to drop to 5.
Reid was good, but not great.
And your openers are? Richardson? and ?
Sutcliffe?
Not Reid.
You'll note I purposely avoided naming openers.
I'm inclined to nominate Latham, but feel I'm influenced by recency bias.
I don't know if it's the answer in an all time lineup but what I was getting at was that openers are arguably a weaker spot and maybe we shuffle the others to cover.
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@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Rapido said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
Didn't realise JF Reid had passed away.
Neither, he would have been quite young still.
64 apparently. Cancer.
And I have to disagree with @crucial. Can't see JFR on Mt Rushmore. I'm struggling to see him in the 1st XI.
I can understand that we never really watched him but his batting stats are right up there if you were assembling a lineup. Would you really not select a player with our second highest batting average (over 30 innings). Higher than M Crowe and only below KW? Centuries playing away in Oz, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.
Yes. He batted 3. He's behind KW, Crowe bats at 4, Roscoe has to drop to 5.
Reid was good, but not great.
And your openers are? Richardson? and ?
Sutcliffe?
Not Reid.
You'll note I purposely avoided naming openers.
I'm inclined to nominate Latham, but feel I'm influenced by recency bias.
I think the point I was making in my initial post was that we as a nation only have what Iād consider two all time legends of the game. A host of āvery goodā players would make up the rest of our all time XI.
Our neighbours across the ditch on the other hand would have to leave out some legendary batsmen. How do you get Bradman, Ponting, Smith, G Chappell, Border and S Waugh in the same side ?
England, Australia and the Windies would, at a guess, have about 15-20 of that talent level in their history.
India ? Thereād be a few batsmen but fuck all bowlers.
Pakistan and SA would have a few.
Sri Lanka ? Murali, Sangakarra, Jayawardene would be about it.
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When looking at the credentials of any of the old timers you have to factor in that the players around them were all shite (in the main). Club cricketers with if they were luck one or two who might get a look in to today's team.
JRR would be ideally suited to the modern game and has to be considered for the all-rounders spot in our all time 11 (Hadlee not really being a true all-rounder).
JFR did the typical Kiwi thing of starting off really well. He retired before we found out if he was going to do that other Kiwi thing of rapidly turning to shit / getting found out and ending up with a career average in the mid 30's.
Anyways if the England test papered over the cracks, then the decorator is on double time. We are still more than a bit average but two great results!!!
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@dogmeat said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
When looking at the credentials of any of the old timers you have to factor in that the players around them were all shite (in the main). Club cricketers with if they were luck one or two who might get a look in to today's team.
JRR would be ideally suited to the modern game and has to be considered for the all-rounders spot in our all time 11 (Hadlee not really being a true all-rounder).
JFR did the typical Kiwi thing of starting off really well. He retired before we found out if he was going to do that other Kiwi thing of rapidly turning to shit / getting found out and ending up with a career average in the mid 30's.
Anyways if the England test papered over the cracks, then the decorator is on double time. We are still more than a bit average but two great results!!!
I suspect JF Reid with a FC average of 38 would have been found out. I remember the fantastic start that Mark Greatbatch had. You could argue Henry Nicholls did that too.
KW DEFINITELY has/had better teammates than Paddles ever did.
Paddles averaged more with the bat than John Morrison and Jeff Crowe for goodness sake.
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@MN5 said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Rapido said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
Didn't realise JF Reid had passed away.
Neither, he would have been quite young still.
64 apparently. Cancer.
And I have to disagree with @crucial. Can't see JFR on Mt Rushmore. I'm struggling to see him in the 1st XI.
I can understand that we never really watched him but his batting stats are right up there if you were assembling a lineup. Would you really not select a player with our second highest batting average (over 30 innings). Higher than M Crowe and only below KW? Centuries playing away in Oz, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.
Yes. He batted 3. He's behind KW, Crowe bats at 4, Roscoe has to drop to 5.
Reid was good, but not great.
And your openers are? Richardson? and ?
Sutcliffe?
Not Reid.
You'll note I purposely avoided naming openers.
I'm inclined to nominate Latham, but feel I'm influenced by recency bias.
I think the point I was making in my initial post was that we as a nation only have what Iād consider two all time legends of the game. A host of āvery goodā players would make up the rest of our all time XI.
Our neighbours across the ditch on the other hand would have to leave out some legendary batsmen. How do you get Bradman, Ponting, Smith, G Chappell, Border and S Waugh in the same side ?
England, Australia and the Windies would, at a guess, have about 15-20 of that talent level in their history.
India ? Thereād be a few batsmen but fuck all bowlers.
Pakistan and SA would have a few.
Sri Lanka ? Murali, Sangakarra, Jayawardene would be about it.
Personally I have Bond up there with KW and Hadlee. I know he didn't play enough games due to contracts and injury, but he was absolutely unplayable. Accurate, and swinging it a mile at 150+ clicks, making world class batsmen look silly.
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@No-Quarter said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@MN5 said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Rapido said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
Didn't realise JF Reid had passed away.
Neither, he would have been quite young still.
64 apparently. Cancer.
And I have to disagree with @crucial. Can't see JFR on Mt Rushmore. I'm struggling to see him in the 1st XI.
I can understand that we never really watched him but his batting stats are right up there if you were assembling a lineup. Would you really not select a player with our second highest batting average (over 30 innings). Higher than M Crowe and only below KW? Centuries playing away in Oz, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.
Yes. He batted 3. He's behind KW, Crowe bats at 4, Roscoe has to drop to 5.
Reid was good, but not great.
And your openers are? Richardson? and ?
Sutcliffe?
Not Reid.
You'll note I purposely avoided naming openers.
I'm inclined to nominate Latham, but feel I'm influenced by recency bias.
I think the point I was making in my initial post was that we as a nation only have what Iād consider two all time legends of the game. A host of āvery goodā players would make up the rest of our all time XI.
Our neighbours across the ditch on the other hand would have to leave out some legendary batsmen. How do you get Bradman, Ponting, Smith, G Chappell, Border and S Waugh in the same side ?
England, Australia and the Windies would, at a guess, have about 15-20 of that talent level in their history.
India ? Thereād be a few batsmen but fuck all bowlers.
Pakistan and SA would have a few.
Sri Lanka ? Murali, Sangakarra, Jayawardene would be about it.
Personally I have Bond up there with KW and Hadlee. I know he didn't play enough games due to contracts and injury, but he was absolutely unplayable. Accurate, and swinging it a mile at 150+ clicks, making world class batsmen look silly.
I certainly donāt disagree with ANY of the above. He was amazing but, again, just 18 tests.
He also only played a total of 60 first class matches which is surprising. Paddles played 342 for numbers even better than his test returns.
But when Bond DID actually play it was so satisfying that our scary pace bowler was better than Australiaās ( Brett Lee )
Itās definitely fair to say he probably would have had a better career than Boult, Southee etc if he had been injury free.
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@dogmeat said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
When looking at the credentials of any of the old timers you have to factor in that the players around them were all shite (in the main). Club cricketers with if they were luck one or two who might get a look in to today's team.
JRR would be ideally suited to the modern game and has to be considered for the all-rounders spot in our all time 11 (Hadlee not really being a true all-rounder).
JFR did the typical Kiwi thing of starting off really well. He retired before we found out if he was going to do that other Kiwi thing of rapidly turning to shit / getting found out and ending up with a career average in the mid 30's.
Anyways if the England test papered over the cracks, then the decorator is on double time. We are still more than a bit average but two great results!!!
Yeah. JFR well over-performed his career FC average, when playing at test level. Would expected him to revert more to his expected average of mid to late 30s if he played a longer career.
Good player of spin.
Short career. Missed some tours/seasons and retired early due to work.
Missed playing the 1980s Windies on all 3 occasions.Good player, not really a great. Would rate lower than Congdon or Coney IMO, definitely below Wright.
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@MN5 said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@No-Quarter said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@MN5 said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Rapido said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
Didn't realise JF Reid had passed away.
Neither, he would have been quite young still.
64 apparently. Cancer.
And I have to disagree with @crucial. Can't see JFR on Mt Rushmore. I'm struggling to see him in the 1st XI.
I can understand that we never really watched him but his batting stats are right up there if you were assembling a lineup. Would you really not select a player with our second highest batting average (over 30 innings). Higher than M Crowe and only below KW? Centuries playing away in Oz, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.
Yes. He batted 3. He's behind KW, Crowe bats at 4, Roscoe has to drop to 5.
Reid was good, but not great.
And your openers are? Richardson? and ?
Sutcliffe?
Not Reid.
You'll note I purposely avoided naming openers.
I'm inclined to nominate Latham, but feel I'm influenced by recency bias.
I think the point I was making in my initial post was that we as a nation only have what Iād consider two all time legends of the game. A host of āvery goodā players would make up the rest of our all time XI.
Our neighbours across the ditch on the other hand would have to leave out some legendary batsmen. How do you get Bradman, Ponting, Smith, G Chappell, Border and S Waugh in the same side ?
England, Australia and the Windies would, at a guess, have about 15-20 of that talent level in their history.
India ? Thereād be a few batsmen but fuck all bowlers.
Pakistan and SA would have a few.
Sri Lanka ? Murali, Sangakarra, Jayawardene would be about it.
Personally I have Bond up there with KW and Hadlee. I know he didn't play enough games due to contracts and injury, but he was absolutely unplayable. Accurate, and swinging it a mile at 150+ clicks, making world class batsmen look silly.
I certainly donāt disagree with ANY of the above. He was amazing but, again, just 18 tests.
He also only played a total of 60 first class matches which is surprising. Paddles played 342 for numbers even better than his test returns.
But when Bond DID actually play it was so satisfying that our scary pace bowler was better than Australiaās ( Brett Lee )
Itās definitely fair to say he probably would have had a better career than Boult, Southee etc if he had been injury free.
He was amazing. Apart from Hadlee the most destructive kiwi quick I've ever seen. But he gets marked down for longevity for me. Can't put a guy on the mountain top based on potential. But if he'd stayed fit he definitely had the chance to be one of the greats. For now I'd class him as a great*
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@MN5 said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Crucial said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@Rapido said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
@booboo said in Blackcaps v Sri Lanka:
Didn't realise JF Reid had passed away.
Neither, he would have been quite young still.
64 apparently. Cancer.
And I have to disagree with @crucial. Can't see JFR on Mt Rushmore. I'm struggling to see him in the 1st XI.
I can understand that we never really watched him but his batting stats are right up there if you were assembling a lineup. Would you really not select a player with our second highest batting average (over 30 innings). Higher than M Crowe and only below KW? Centuries playing away in Oz, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.
Yes. He batted 3. He's behind KW, Crowe bats at 4, Roscoe has to drop to 5.
Reid was good, but not great.
And your openers are? Richardson? and ?
Sutcliffe?
Not Reid.
You'll note I purposely avoided naming openers.
I'm inclined to nominate Latham, but feel I'm influenced by recency bias.
I think the point I was making in my initial post was that we as a nation only have what Iād consider two all time legends of the game. A host of āvery goodā players would make up the rest of our all time XI.
Our neighbours across the ditch on the other hand would have to leave out some legendary batsmen. How do you get Bradman, Ponting, Smith, G Chappell, Border and S Waugh in the same side ?
England, Australia and the Windies would, at a guess, have about 15-20 of that talent level in their history.
India ? Thereād be a few batsmen but fuck all bowlers.
Pakistan and SA would have a few.
Sri Lanka ? Murali, Sangakarra, Jayawardene would be about it.
I think Jayawardene would only rank the next level down - especially if that's where you're slotting Marty Crowe.
South Africa - Barry Richards and Graeme Pollock would make the top level, I think - which makes me wonder whether Bondy should as well. What's the line from Bladerunner about burning very bright?
Shaun Pollock, Kallis, Donald, Mike Proctor, ABdV, Dale Steyn - all would go close - Kallis a certainty.
