Exodus
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If it goes to board level then it is not just brainstorming ...
Well it is, because anyone who has idea has to take it too board level to see if it can be discussed first. Surely any idea is talked about, then taken to higher level to see if it can be done, it is in almost any business I been involved in.
That's how we got sabbaticals, Cater's agent took it to negotiating table , they listened and took it to board who agreed.
And personally have done similar myself, dept I ran , young fella was leaving, I asked if he got more money would he consider staying, he said he would think on it, boss didn't want to pay him more, so no problem.Mate, I’ve stayed out of a lot of the governance discussions on here, but that’s a bit of nonsense that can’t be ignored.
Stuff that reaches board level should be considered, thought out, properly analysed. It should be pitched to the board, not presented as a brainstorming exercise.
I’ll confess that I’ve never been on a sporting board so maybe it’s done differently there. I currently serve on 4 corporate boards though, and I’ll say that it’s pretty rare that someone brings a proposal to us that doesn’t have the full support of the execs, that hasn’t been costed and thought out properly.
Maybe sports boards are used more as sounding boards than corporate ones?
Well every rugby board I have been involved in if someone comes up with what is considered a new idea, it was almost always discussed, even if briefly.
Most sports boards are actually (like NZR etc) at the behest of the people in their sport, as they like NZR are the people who appoint-vote them in.
Anyway that's enough about that, I admit to getting fired up with constant negativity, NZR like any board makes mistakes but this wasn't one. -
@Chris I would be very very surprised if any big organisation/club (and not so big) didn't have some out of it ideas thrown out for discussion. It's how they work, once in a blue moon 'out of it' ideas work.
The only boards/companies/clubs that fail/stagnate in my opinion are those that discourage new/different ideas from being discussed. That's why you have boards voted in, to try and work out what is good or not.
My opinion is NZR board got this right, they discussed idea and rejected it.But not that idea it had very very little merit.
And really it should have not entered anyone’s head at NZR to even it bring it up to Barrett in the first place.And much as I agree the idea has very little merit, I strongly suspect eventually it will happen. Unfortunately, was always going to be case the day rugby went pro!
And I will add paying rugby players?? What idiot bought up that idea?? And what board
I really hope it doesn’t happen it will be to the detriment of their own back yard if they do.
The paying players was forced on them by the professional group that tried to sign players for a Rebel competition in World Rugby Championship (WRC) backed by Packer.
So not really a Rugby board but a group of businessmen came up with that ideaYep and someone came up with the idea Chris. It all starts somewhere, people had been talking pro rugby for quite a time, and it had been discussed at board level and turned down.
You live in Aussie don't you? How do you feel about your own rugby board doing the very thing that NZR has turned down. And SARFU, Scotland, Wales etc. The only rugby unions that don't allow players to play overseas that I know are NZR, FRU and I thing RU in England, not sure about Ireland but believe you still can play elsewhere, more money in Ireland though from what I gather. Are all these other unions poorly run and a bunch of idiots? See we seem to have different standards for different places don't we? Surely not every RU in world is not that poorly run?I may live here due to my coaching career but it is not my board in Australia,I don't support them just were I was born have family friends and have played in NZ..
So I feel sweet Fuck all about Australian rugby boards.
They can stuff up as much as they like.I just care about were my friends and Family are involved in rugby in Canterbury and NZ.
Because like me some of their pay packets rely on Boards being efficient.So Chris, your family and friends are being paid by being part of one of financially stable rugby boards in the world. Ok well as pointed out NZR are one of the few who have been able to keep test players, yet because you got family and friends getting some of the coin they bring in ( and your whanau are no doubt doing there bit too make game here good, so would I assume also be good at job too) you feel you should sit there and constantly moan, because I have never really seen anything positive from you re NZR etc. And as you point out these friends etc are part of NZR that you seem to strongly dislike.
If you know f all about other rugby boards , you don't know whether NZR is best or worst run board around I take it. I think they are, and your friend etc are doing a great job as part of it.Well you have not read all my posts then I have certainty praised them when they have gone well.
But I am not going to kiss their arse like you do at every opportunity.That’s a terrible way of keeping them honest isn’t it, blindly defending them at every opportunitiy you can .
More PC Bs you are one of the reasons boards get away with stuffing up because you can’t face up to mistakes and carry on regardless.
Never do no wrong aye yeah right.
Cheers St Dan.Yep fair enough I obviously haven't read ALL your posts, but almost everyone I seem to read are saying how stupid the NZR are.
, they make cock ups like any boards, but in my opinion a lot less than most in world of rugby, as they held to answer from in my opinion generally a lot of very well run rugby provincial/club boards.
But anyway I admit to getting fired up a bit at constant calling the board stupid incompetent etc as it reflects on all rugby people who appoint said boards as much as anything. There is a difference between saying you pointing out mistakes and calling them stupid etc as you do and continually
But cheers anyway I will continue to look reasonably positively and no doubt you will do opposite.
Always remember I will guarantee that the Cricket club you work with is getting criticism behind back, and I can bet there are number of people who have said they could coach better than you. Happens in all sport, and I would back you if I was involved , for same reason, I bet you were appointed by a board who went through best practices they know and found you were best candidite for the job.
Thats enough about that anyway. -
@muddyriver said in Exodus:
It's only a matter of time before out best players are overseas and new zealand has only a tier 2 domestic league.
Super rugby is bleeding to the nrl and other aussie sports as TV product. It will become more cost effective to have one league and let the expensive boys go over seas.
Unless nzr comes up with some increased revenue some where, I think they will be forced into this
Yep it's unfortunate, I really think NZR have done incredibly well to hold up the bleeding of even more players,but must get harder when they one of few that still do it, and there getting to be more and more coin overseas. I like the idea of sabbaticals (although originally against it) as one means of doing it.
I even like even more where progressve boards like the Chiefs are making the suggestions to players , and sending them overseas early to make it work for them. -
Can’t say I recognise too many players in the last few posts…
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@Chris I would be very very surprised if any big organisation/club (and not so big) didn't have some out of it ideas thrown out for discussion. It's how they work, once in a blue moon 'out of it' ideas work.
The only boards/companies/clubs that fail/stagnate in my opinion are those that discourage new/different ideas from being discussed. That's why you have boards voted in, to try and work out what is good or not.
My opinion is NZR board got this right, they discussed idea and rejected it.But not that idea it had very very little merit.
And really it should have not entered anyone’s head at NZR to even it bring it up to Barrett in the first place.And much as I agree the idea has very little merit, I strongly suspect eventually it will happen. Unfortunately, was always going to be case the day rugby went pro!
And I will add paying rugby players?? What idiot bought up that idea?? And what board
I really hope it doesn’t happen it will be to the detriment of their own back yard if they do.
The paying players was forced on them by the professional group that tried to sign players for a Rebel competition in World Rugby Championship (WRC) backed by Packer.
So not really a Rugby board but a group of businessmen came up with that ideaYep and someone came up with the idea Chris. It all starts somewhere, people had been talking pro rugby for quite a time, and it had been discussed at board level and turned down.
You live in Aussie don't you? How do you feel about your own rugby board doing the very thing that NZR has turned down. And SARFU, Scotland, Wales etc. The only rugby unions that don't allow players to play overseas that I know are NZR, FRU and I thing RU in England, not sure about Ireland but believe you still can play elsewhere, more money in Ireland though from what I gather. Are all these other unions poorly run and a bunch of idiots? See we seem to have different standards for different places don't we? Surely not every RU in world is not that poorly run?I may live here due to my coaching career but it is not my board in Australia,I don't support them just were I was born have family friends and have played in NZ..
So I feel sweet Fuck all about Australian rugby boards.
They can stuff up as much as they like.I just care about were my friends and Family are involved in rugby in Canterbury and NZ.
Because like me some of their pay packets rely on Boards being efficient.So Chris, your family and friends are being paid by being part of one of financially stable rugby boards in the world. Ok well as pointed out NZR are one of the few who have been able to keep test players, yet because you got family and friends getting some of the coin they bring in ( and your whanau are no doubt doing there bit too make game here good, so would I assume also be good at job too) you feel you should sit there and constantly moan, because I have never really seen anything positive from you re NZR etc. And as you point out these friends etc are part of NZR that you seem to strongly dislike.
If you know f all about other rugby boards , you don't know whether NZR is best or worst run board around I take it. I think they are, and your friend etc are doing a great job as part of it.Well you have not read all my posts then I have certainty praised them when they have gone well.
But I am not going to kiss their arse like you do at every opportunity.That’s a terrible way of keeping them honest isn’t it, blindly defending them at every opportunitiy you can .
More PC Bs you are one of the reasons boards get away with stuffing up because you can’t face up to mistakes and carry on regardless.
Never do no wrong aye yeah right.
Cheers St Dan.Yep fair enough I obviously haven't read ALL your posts, but almost everyone I seem to read are saying how stupid the NZR are.
, they make cock ups like any boards, but in my opinion a lot less than most in world of rugby, as they held to answer from in my opinion generally a lot of very well run rugby provincial/club boards.
But anyway I admit to getting fired up a bit at constant calling the board stupid incompetent etc as it reflects on all rugby people who appoint said boards as much as anything. There is a difference between saying you pointing out mistakes and calling them stupid etc as you do and continually
But cheers anyway I will continue to look reasonably positively and no doubt you will do opposite.
Always remember I will guarantee that the Cricket club you work with is getting criticism behind back, and I can bet there are number of people who have said they could coach better than you. Happens in all sport, and I would back you if I was involved , for same reason, I bet you were appointed by a board who went through best practices they know and found you were best candidite for the job.
Thats enough about that anyway.Yes the club I am HC coach for has an excellent board they oversee the 300 players which includes juniors at our club which is a premier district club but also helps govern the 5 feeder clubs in our district that feed into our District club.
They do a lot of hard work and they are passionate they have my respect not just because they employ me they just work hard.All sporting bodies need boards of course,I like you get passionate about the sports I have and am involved with so get fired up as well when I see what I deem as bad mistakes being made.
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so, to sum up
Chris hates teh NZRU because he thinks they are holding back the people of Christchurch
Dan is still the only real rugby man on hereAnd Beauden Barrett is shit now, will be a hundred times worse in 18 months, and is absolutely not worth blowing up the entire structure of NZ rugby for.
good chat.
oh wait, also the NZRU are strangely complicit in just allowing the next level of players fuck off overseas for half the year and play in America. No one cares because they aren't ABs, but it has severe implications for our overall structure by eroding club rugby.
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@mariner4life said in Exodus:
so, to sum up
Chris hates teh NZRU because he thinks they are holding back the people of Christchurch
Dan is still the only real rugby man on hereAnd Beauden Barrett is shit now, will be a hundred times worse in 18 months, and is absolutely not worth blowing up the entire structure of NZ rugby for.
good chat.
oh wait, also the NZRU are strangely **complicit in **just allowing the next level of players fuck off overseas for half the year and play in America. No one cares because they aren't ABs, but it has severe implications for our overall structure by eroding club rugby.
Exactly except for this bit
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@mariner4life said in Exodus:
oh wait, also the NZRU are strangely complicit in just allowing the next level of players fuck off overseas for half the year and play in America. No one cares because they aren't ABs, but it has severe implications for our overall structure by eroding club rugby.
Wait, what? Who is claiming that NZR are complicit in allowing those players going overseas? That's just silly.
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@Stargazer said in Exodus:
@mariner4life said in Exodus:
oh wait, also the NZRU are strangely complicit in just allowing the next level of players fuck off overseas for half the year and play in America. No one cares because they aren't ABs, but it has severe implications for our overall structure by eroding club rugby.
Wait, what? Who is claiming that NZR are complicit in allowing those players going overseas? That's just silly.
i am. i am claiming it.
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How are they complicit? The players below SR level don't have contracts with NZR and NZR doesn't have any power to stop them from going overseas to earn a living by playing rugby. We're lucky that players playing in the MLR will still be available to their provinces for the NPC.
Or do you think NZR should offer the "next level of players" some sort of contract and wages (similar to those in those overseas' competitions) to just play club rugby and wait for a SR player to get injured?
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Ok, I've missed most of the discussion and can't be bothered reading back so ignore me if I'm going over already covered ground, but aren't these US contracts a net positive for NZ rugby as it allows players to remain in NZ and play the NPC. Without the US top up money they will likely be lost to the country as they will seek full overseas contracts.
Either way club rugby is going to lose them, but at least this way they play NPC.
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@Nepia MRL clashes with super rugby, so results in a disjointed "pyramid", players playing NPC...but not super so dont get that next stepping stone
feel its going to result in it being even hard for players to get dropped from the AB's as there will be even less confidence in those coming through
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i know you weird Hawkes Bay fluffybunnies only care about the NPC, but that doesn't sound like a great fucking solution to me.
The NPC used to be this great comp where guys who played in your province played for your province against other provinces, and you cared! Now? It's just like any other pro comp in the world, except its not professional.
The wait and glee for NPC signings on here makes me sick.
There is a world of difference between a guy not playing club rugby in your province because he's busy playing Super rugby, and a guy not playing club rugby in your province because he's playing in America.
Oh, yay for the players, they can make a "living" playing code. We're on the slippery slope cricket is already sliding down with the various T20 comps around the world.
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@Stargazer said in Exodus:
How are they complicit? The players below SR level don't have contracts with NZR and NZR doesn't have any power to stop them from going overseas to earn a living by playing rugby. We're lucky that players playing in the MLR will still be available to their provinces for the NPC.
Or do you think NZR should offer the "next level of players" some sort of contract and wages (similar to those in those overseas' competitions) to just play club rugby and wait for a SR player to get injured?
Gee Starg, thats an awful sensible post for this thread!!
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@Kiwiwomble said in Exodus:
@Nepia MRL clashes with super rugby, so results in a disjointed "pyramid", players playing NPC...but not super so dont get that next stepping stone
feel its going to result in it being even hard for players to get dropped from the AB's as there will be even less confidence in those coming through
But aren't most of the players going to MLR those that missed out on Super contracts anyway so they're not going to get that stepping stone? Better to have them playing, for a wee bit of cash, and then come back for NPC and another shot at a super contract.
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@mariner4life said in Exodus:
i know you weird Hawkes Bay fluffybunnies only care about the NPC, but that doesn't sound like a great fucking solution to me.
The NPC used to be this great comp where guys who played in your province played for your province against other provinces, and you cared! Now? It's just like any other pro comp in the world, except its not professional.
The wait and glee for NPC signings on here makes me sick.
There is a world of difference between a guy not playing club rugby in your province because he's busy playing Super rugby, and a guy not playing club rugby in your province because he's playing in America.
Oh, yay for the players, they can make a "living" playing code. We're on the slippery slope cricket is already sliding down with the various T20 comps around the world.
To be honest I a huge NPC fan(always have been) big time (Naki supporter), but you correct in that it has changed, I know generally super players are tied up during club season, but generally (well I know here in the Naki, players returning from Japan play a bit of club rugby to be eligible for the NPC. Certainly know Jesse Parata has played for Southern club (his old club) when returning, same as Micheal Bent the Irish prop, who played for Southern again before he played for the Naki. I not sure about other provinces.
And really provinces have used 'loan' players etc since the late 80s.
But the idea of players making a living playing the game started in 96 (well officially, but was before that in reality), and no way that gate can get shut again. As you say on the slippery slope where players go where they get paid the best, as in all pro sports.
Be nice if people just played for the love like the proper grassroots rugby, but we have missed that bus mate! -
@mariner4life said in Exodus:
i know you weird Hawkes Bay fluffybunnies only care about the NPC, but that doesn't sound like a great fucking solution to me.
The NPC used to be this great comp where guys who played in your province played for your province against other provinces, and you cared! Now? It's just like any other pro comp in the world, except its not professional.
The wait and glee for NPC signings on here makes me sick.
There is a world of difference between a guy not playing club rugby in your province because he's busy playing Super rugby, and a guy not playing club rugby in your province because he's playing in America.
Oh, yay for the players, they can make a "living" playing code. We're on the slippery slope cricket is already sliding down with the various T20 comps around the world.
What's your solution? How do we retain those players for club rugby? You may scoff at them wanting to be paid to play the game but that's the nature of the modern rugby world. McClutchie had to get a short term Japanese contract a few years back because despite being one of the better 10s in the NPC, he couldn't even get a third 10 spot in a NZ super team (while a guy Garden-Bachop has a multi year super career). Sadly, club rugby isn't ever going to get back to the status it used to have.
Also, the reason we love the NPC/Magpies so much these days as they're probably been the most homegrown they've been since the 1980s (and lets take off the rose tinted glasses, there was lots of moving between provinces pre professionalism). We actually have a clear pathway for players from school and club rugby (bar the idiot coaches' few mates from Wellington he parachuted in). If BoP is still operating on a mostly invitational basis then that's on them.
@Kiwiwomble said in Exodus:
@Nepia i feel it use to be those guy heading to retirement but is slowly moving to the "fringe" players, those that pushed player to the next level
What are they supposed to do otherwise? What should Caleb Makene, for example, do when he misses out on a Super contract? His options are sign a full overseas contract, sign with MLR/NPC, or find some work and play club rugby. The romantic third version is pretty unrealistic.
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@mariner4life said in Exodus:
i know you weird Hawkes Bay fluffybunnies only care about the NPC, but that doesn't sound like a great fucking solution to me.
The NPC used to be this great comp where guys who played in your province played for your province against other provinces, and you cared! Now? It's just like any other pro comp in the world, except its not professional.
The last few years, the number of players returning to their home province has actually increased, but that wasn't really what this discussion is about.
The wait and glee for NPC signings on here makes me sick.
Some of us still love the NPC, yes.
There is a world of difference between a guy not playing club rugby in your province because he's busy playing Super rugby, and a guy not playing club rugby in your province because he's playing in America.
No one disputed that.
Oh, yay for the players, they can make a "living" playing code. We're on the slippery slope cricket is already sliding down with the various T20 comps around the world.
You still haven't addressed my question as to how NZR is "complicit" in these players going overseas and what power they have to stop that.
