2018 School Rugby
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The two Auckland private schools he refers to must be St Kents and Kings.
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@bovidae said in 2018 New Zealand Schools:
The two Auckland private schools he refers to must be St Kents and Kings.
If this bit is true, then holy shit!
Bills alleges rich-lister Douglas Goodfellow, when he died in 2014, left St Kentigern $250 million.
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From: http://www.businesshalloffame.co.nz/past-laureates/goodfellow-william-douglas/
i(William) Douglas Goodfellow
Douglas Goodfellow, a son of dairy entrepreneur Sir William Goodfellow, built on his good start in life to become an astute investor and a spectacular donor.
He inherited great wealth but also the Goodfellows’ Presbyterian penchant for altruism and modesty. Once the richest New Zealander, by 1995 he had transferred most of his fortune to chartable trusts.
Goodfellow became a generous donor to the St Kentigern Trust, established in 1949 to facilitate the creation of a Presbyterian boys’ college at Pakuranga, Auckland.
He also established and funded a postgraduate chair in general practice at the Auckland Medical School, the Goodfellow Unit offering continuing education to doctors and nurses in primary health care, and the Douglas Goodfellow Scholarship in Engineering.
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@bovidae said in 2018 New Zealand Schools:
The two Auckland private schools he refers to must be St Kents and Kings.
I don't know why he stopped at two private schools. Auckland Grammar and MAGS do the same too.
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@bovidae it has always happened to some degree in NZ, not a new problem at all. Difference now is that almost ALL schools do it. If you look at new to schools list each year that as coaches you are allowed to see, the surprise is to see a school that doesn't from the Sth to the nth.
In relation to St Peters they do. Maybe not to the same level as others but they are very selective on who they enroll. They have over 3 times the amount of boys apply than there are places when entering so they can 'select' the best from there while topping up when needed.
Getting boring listening to these articles now, like to see the motivation behind it. -
@98blueandgold This isn't the first article on this topic so, like you, I'm interested to know what prompted Peter Lampp to write it now. I assume he would have knowledge of what happens in the Manawatu region, and maybe PNBHS is one of the Super 8 schools that have lost players to another school.
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@98blueandgold said in 2018 School Rugby:
@bovidae it has always happened to some degree in NZ, not a new problem at all. Difference now is that almost ALL schools do it. If you look at new to schools list each year that as coaches you are allowed to see, the surprise is to see a school that doesn't from the Sth to the nth.
In relation to St Peters they do. Maybe not to the same level as others but they are very selective on who they enroll. They have over 3 times the amount of boys apply than there are places when entering so they can 'select' the best from there while topping up when needed.
Getting boring listening to these articles now, like to see the motivation behind it.With the emphasis on "almost". For example, Napier Boys does not. All players from the 1st XV squad that played so well this year and reached the final were at NBHS since year 9 and the one exception was a player who arrived from Lindisfarne College in year 10.
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@stargazer I agree but schools like Napier are selective in their enrolment, much like St Peters. I do not know their story but how many are out of zone enrolments. Schools may not bring players in but they make sure they are attracted to school at year 9. It doesn't bother me but schools go out of there way to say they don't poach yet 80% of the 1stXV are from out of the school zone.
Classic example is Christchurch Boys who if they selected solely or even if 50% came from zone wld like very different as a 1stXV. Auckland Grammar wld be the same. -
@98blueandgold Not sure what you mean with "selective in their enrolment" of out of zone students. They apply the priorities listed in the Education Act (with the first priority - relating to special programmes - not being applicable to NBHS). If there are more applicants than places in a priority group, selection is by ballot. How can they select players based on their rugby abilities based on those criteria?
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@stargazer I'm not having a go at Napier at all, as I said I do not know of their situation and understand how a few players have ended at other schools from them recently. I will not make judgement on them. They did awesome this year with St Peters.
I am more stating about articles like this.
It's easy for people to bury their heads in the sand or point fingers without the fully understanding the story. Zoning has eroded the power of Many 'prestigious' rugby schools who now 'bend' the rules to suit them and then point fingers at 'poachers' there are many expressions for this. Again not having a go at Napier at all. -
@stargazer said in 2018 School Rugby:
@98blueandgold Not sure what you mean with "selective in their enrolment" of out of zone students. They apply the priorities listed in the Education Act (with the first priority - relating to special programmes - not being applicable to NBHS). If there are more applicants than places in a priority group, selection is by ballot. How can they select players based on their rugby abilities based on those criteria?
No idea about Napier.
But if you are a good rugby player, then the chance your number will come up in the Hamilton Boys ballot is 100%, based on none of them ever missing out. Also applies to those good at football, very smart etc.
(Not sure if HBHS even ballots at the moment though, since the arrival of Hamilton North.)
Can't schools set criteria before the ballot? Staff kids, those with siblings at the school, etc are granted first preference. If one of your criteria is those that will enhance the school by some outstanding ability, then your poaching work is done.
When Napier does its ballot, do good rugby boys ever miss out? Or do they all seem to get lucky?
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@chester-draws said in 2018 School Rugby:
But if you are a good rugby player, then the chance your number will come up in the Hamilton Boys ballot is 100%, based on none of them ever missing out. Also applies to those good at football, very smart etc.
Just as well you said that. I'm sure there is still a ballot but parents are encouraged to emphasis all sporting and academic achievements as that helps. It would with all high decile schools.
Can't schools set criteria before the ballot? Staff kids, those with siblings at the school, etc are granted first preference. If one of your criteria is those that will enhance the school by some outstanding ability, then your poaching work is done.
AFAIK the ballot only applies to those students out of zone, or who don't meet the criteria for acceptance.
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If your in zone you have to be accepted, after that it is brothers, family reasons etc.
Issue is a number of schools are highly pressured by numbers but continue to accept huge out of zone enrolments to keep a 'prestigious' reputation in different areas incl academics. -
@bovidae said in 2018 School Rugby:
@chester-draws said in 2018 School Rugby:
But if you are a good rugby player, then the chance your number will come up in the Hamilton Boys ballot is 100%, based on none of them ever missing out. Also applies to those good at football, very smart etc.
Just as well you said that. I'm sure there is still a ballot but parents are encouraged to emphasis all sporting and academic achievements as that helps. It would with all high decile schools.
Can't schools set criteria before the ballot? Staff kids, those with siblings at the school, etc are granted first preference. If one of your criteria is those that will enhance the school by some outstanding ability, then your poaching work is done.
AFAIK the ballot only applies to those students out of zone, or who don't meet the criteria for acceptance.
Yes, see the link to the Education Act in my previous post.
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So you set up "special programs". One for rugby, one for football, one for academics ... Then they're first priority.
I know Hillcrest High have a special program for disabled, so that everyone who qualifies gets in regardless of location.
Somehow these rugby kids always seem to make it in to HBHS. So the Act is being bent somehow.
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@chester-draws said in 2018 School Rugby:
So you set up "special programs". One for rugby, one for football, one for academics ... Then they're first priority.
I know Hillcrest High have a special program for disabled, so that everyone who qualifies gets in regardless of location.
Somehow these rugby kids always seem to make it in to HBHS. So the Act is being bent somehow.
No, special programme is defined in the Education Act and doesn't cover sports programmes.
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1989/0080/latest/DLM177489.html
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I haven't been around the schools system for a while now but certainly the rules were always being bent when I was coaching. Even if a state school won the battle over a private school offering fee assistance the next battle was from other State schools looking to bolster their sports programmes.
Local development coaches would openly tell good players that they should consider moving schools and that they could put them in touch with people that would assist. The biggest factor was 'we won't look at you for development if you aren't playing first grade, so go to a first grade school'. I knew of nobody with good rugby pedigree that was ever turned down as an out of zone enrolment no matter how over subscribed a school was.
I didn't necessarily have an issue with any of that as it was also mixed up with educational opportunities for often under privileged that you couldn't blame anyone for grabbing. Where my problem lay was that players with good potential that didn't/ couldn't move had no avenue to push their claims as their appearance at identification camps was a token gesture and the rep level was being run by the same folk with a vested interest in the boys already chosen at the 'better' schools.
I have witnessed identification days where players we had nominated would do the drills at a much higher skill level, with much more instinct and enthusiasm etc while others that couldn't even pass the ball properly off both hands would get selected primarily due to their school.
Again, I don't blame the schools in this but the Union who should be making sure that school politics doesn't interfere with identifying and supporting the best players in their region.
