Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket
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@nta said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
@mn5 said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
I had nothing but absolute admiration for Border and Waugh. I wished NZ cricket had a couple of guys as good as them.
And both could get cranky, sure. As well as aggressive. But were they Warners? Nup.
Absolutely not. They epitomised hard but fair.
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@nta said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
but that his time as CEO has coincided with some pretty fucking ordinary behaviour on field.
Nice to hear an Aussie admit that.
As for sounding like your wife - we wouldn't have to do that if you behaved.
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@mn5 said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
Absolutely not. They epitomised hard but fair.
I'm still a massive Steve Waugh fan. I reckon he and his team did more for test cricket than most people. They scored fast, played hard but fair, and were prepared to risk losing to win test matches. Didn't hurt to have two legendary bowlers with a great supporting cast around fora few years, but you still had to do something with it. What a player.
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@nta said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
I think you'd agree the integrity of the team around the Border and Waugh captaincy periods was pretty robust. Going back further to Bradman during bodyline, if you like.
Healy, Mark Waugh and Warne were senior players on those teams and hardly paragons of virtue. The Muller and Elliott incidents were hardly the fine moments either.
The mix of individuals were the same as they are today - Aussie always carry a couple of total nuffys usually with small man syndrome. The key was Waugh and Border didn't let the inmates under the asylum. You saw once Ponting took the captaincy and guys like Hayden/McGrath/Langer (see small man syndrome) were let off the leash that things began getting a lot more uglier almost immediately.
Waugh really was a talented leader.
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@nta I didn't think you were suggesting it, and while I am not a fan of comparing Sports organisations with Business (I know some on here are)
Last year NZ had some major changes to the Health & Safety laws, whereby previously a CEO could escape punishments based on ignorance, the changes to the laws removed that and now a CEO must be party to the H & S requirements of his business because a breach could result in heavy fines (a local company here was just fined $400k for a recent breach - uninsurable)
So while I don't think in this instance you can say he is culpable, I think that he must bear some sting as this is his organization and he has allowed behavior or attitudes to get to this point, this hasn't all 'just happened'
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@rotated said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
You saw once Ponting took the captaincy and guys like Hayden/McGrath/Langer (see small man syndrome) were let off the leash that things began getting a lot more uglier almost immediately.
Has anyone heard from Hayden in all of this?
He usually loves a rent-a-quote comment. Interestingly when Australia are clearly in the wrong he is all silent.
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@mariner4life said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
@barbarian not sure I am quite buying that one Barb, it's a little overdone in the hyperbole stakes.
The narrative around Smith and the press conference has changed quite a bit. I'm not sure he really did selflessly dive in front of the bullet fired at "Bangers". It sounded more like when your parents get you to explain why you are in trouble.
"It's my responsibility, but bangers, tell them what you did".
That plays into it, though. Maybe Smith isn't really a leader- it's just not in his personality. He handled it about as well as he could have, which is to say not very well at all. Well intentioned enough, but poorly executed.
I like the article more than most because it's from an actual journo on the ground, who has followed this team around for years. That knowledge counts for something, and I place a lot more trust in that than I do some of the vacuous think-pieces that are floating around the internet.
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@barbarian said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
...some of the vacuous think-pieces that are floating around the internet.
You know yo're on the Fern, eh bro
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@rotated said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
@nta said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
I think you'd agree the integrity of the team around the Border and Waugh captaincy periods was pretty robust. Going back further to Bradman during bodyline, if you like.
Healy, Mark Waugh and Warne were senior players on those teams and hardly paragons of virtue. The Muller and Elliott incidents were hardly the fine moments either.
The mix of individuals were the same as they are today - Aussie always carry a couple of total nuffys usually with small man syndrome. The key was Waugh and Border didn't let the inmates under the asylum. You saw once Ponting took the captaincy and guys like Hayden/McGrath/Langer (see small man syndrome) were let off the leash that things began getting a lot more uglier almost immediately.
Waugh really was a talented leader.
What did Langer do?
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@barbarian said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
Thought this tweet was interesting:
India would have handled this very differently. Probably their usual tactic- claim a racist conspiracy and threaten to boycott the series.
Actually, that's not a bad idea now I think about it...
shit, you're on to something there. Get Dutton to front the outrage. "you only hate us because we're white! None of us are even farmers!" Followed by going home, and blacklisting South African players from the BBL. Textbook.
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@mariner4life said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
shit, you're on to something there. Get Dutton to front the outrage. "you only hate us because we're white! None of us are even farmers!" Followed by going home, and blacklisting South African players from the BBL. Textbook.
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@barbarian thanks for the c&p Barbs.
Good article.
Bit of a puff piece for Smith and hatchet job on Warner. Quite believable scenario though.
Would question just how friendly the friendly face of Australian cricket was. He tended to come across sneery and arrogant to me.
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I quite liked Smith before he became the captain (felt a bit dirty for it too). Since then I've still admired his clear batting talent, but thought he'd fallen into the trap of being more abrasive (aka a bit of a fluffybunny) as he's led the team through some pretty iffy periods of behaviour. But on the whole nothing that was totally new for the Australian team in the last 5 years or so.
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@barbarian said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
@mariner4life said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
@barbarian not sure I am quite buying that one Barb, it's a little overdone in the hyperbole stakes.
The narrative around Smith and the press conference has changed quite a bit. I'm not sure he really did selflessly dive in front of the bullet fired at "Bangers". It sounded more like when your parents get you to explain why you are in trouble.
"It's my responsibility, but bangers, tell them what you did".
That plays into it, though. Maybe Smith isn't really a leader- it's just not in his personality. He handled it about as well as he could have, which is to say not very well at all. Well intentioned enough, but poorly executed.
Yup, I don't think Smith is leadership material. I'd have just left him to being the best test batsmen in the world and have someone else deal with all the shit that comes with the captaincy.
It's not always an easy role to fill, as talent does not equal leader, but often the most talented player gets given the reigns in the hope he'll grow into it because he's most likely to warrant his place in the team long-term.
On our side of the ditch I don't think Kane is a natural leader either, but is growing into the role each year. Easier to get away with it for the BCs than the Aussie team though given how much pressure the Aus captain is always under, especially if they don't perform (or cheat in this instance).
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@no-quarter said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
@barbarian said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
@mariner4life said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
@barbarian not sure I am quite buying that one Barb, it's a little overdone in the hyperbole stakes.
The narrative around Smith and the press conference has changed quite a bit. I'm not sure he really did selflessly dive in front of the bullet fired at "Bangers". It sounded more like when your parents get you to explain why you are in trouble.
"It's my responsibility, but bangers, tell them what you did".
That plays into it, though. Maybe Smith isn't really a leader- it's just not in his personality. He handled it about as well as he could have, which is to say not very well at all. Well intentioned enough, but poorly executed.
Yup, I don't think Smith is leadership material. I'd have just left him to being the best test batsmen in the world and have someone else deal with all the shit that comes with the captaincy.
It's not always an easy role to fill, as talent does not equal leader, but often the most talented player gets given the reigns in the hope he'll grow into it because he's most likely to warrant his place in the team long-term.
On our side of the ditch I don't think Kane is a natural leader either, but is growing into the role each year. Easier to get away with it for the BCs than the Aussie team though given how much pressure the Aus captain is always under, especially if they don't perform (or cheat in this instance).
Oz had a succession of world class batsmen in Border, Waugh, Ponting and Clark as their captains. ( Tubby Taylor was also very good but a notch below them ) it probably seemed logical that Smith would follow suit. In terms of records Smith will probably be better than all of them ( which in itself is a fantastic achievement ) but captain ? Maybe not.
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@nta said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
Smith's batting got better when he became captain. Weirdly.
Seems to go one way or the other.
Kane Williamson’s is the same, average is 51 overall but increases to 58 as captain -
Kane has steadily improved over time, I think it would have improved regardless. Same with Smith.
