2018 New Zealand U20s
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@stargazer Incidents like this one, I tend to give the player a bit of benefit of the doubt, because with referees and TV cameras watching it is highly unlikely you're going to get away with blatantly stamping on someone.
So you've got to be both a grub and an idiot!
Incidentally, was interesting to see Owen Franks on TV a couple of nights ago saying he didn't even know he'd collected Parsons until he saw it on the big screen. At a different point in the season, I reckon he might have pleaded not guilty on that one.
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@chris-b said in 2018 New Zealand U20s:
@stargazer Incidents like this one, I tend to give the player a bit of benefit of the doubt, because with referees and TV cameras watching it is highly unlikely you're going to get away with blatantly stamping on someone.
So you've got to be both a grub and an idiot!
Incidentally, was interesting to see Owen Franks on TV a couple of nights ago saying he didn't even know he'd collected Parsons until he saw it on the big screen. At a different point in the season, I reckon he might have pleaded not guilty on that one.
These guys are too young to have adjusted their behaviour for TV cameras, this is their first taste of televised rugby and the millions of qualified citing commisioners armed with gif tools on twitter.
Looks like the scrummy is trying to pretend he is getting his feet tangled up with a guy lying on the wrong side and uses it as an opportunity to put in a sly stamp on the inside of the forearm. His trailing leg also catches the guy in the face in a backwards kicking motion.
You could give him the benefit of the doubt on the trailing leg. But again a bit like Telea v Wales U20, even if giving that - while deliberately performing one lesser foul he has feasibly accidentally committed a worse foul.
I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt, but can't quite. E.g. he's acting to make it look like the first stamp is accidental, it's not convincing. The second stamp there is an element of doubt about intent - but as he is already pretending that the first stamp is accidental, well ......
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I don't see many of these NZU20 forwards wearing an AB jersey in the future. Flanders maybe but the others are soft. McWhannel has a good workrate but too skinny. Plummer and Koroi were pretty disappointing. I reckon the backs missed their big men (Telea and Faingaanuku) but their basic skills were poor. They just could not stand the pressure.
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@billy-tell said in 2018 New Zealand U20s:
That dropped pass was critical. 14-16 we could have set for a DG.
Comedy Gold 👏😂
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@stargazer said in 2018 New Zealand U20s:
@footy01 I read an article, or heard an interview (I can't remember) recently in which they discussed the huge impact the presence of so many NZ players (particularly former ABs) had on young French players in the Top 14. They said these young players were like sponges. Instead of criticising the big number of AB retirees in the Top 14, they said they should cherish it because there was so much learning opportunity from the best in the game. I remember specifically guys like Carter, Conrad Smith and Vito being mentioned.
Surely not as influential as a young NZ player playing in NZ (No. 1 in the world), with players who are arguably the best in their position in the world, and being coached by coaches who are arguably the best in the world.
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@mikethesnow said in 2018 New Zealand U20s:
@stargazer said in 2018 New Zealand U20s:
@footy01 I read an article, or heard an interview (I can't remember) recently in which they discussed the huge impact the presence of so many NZ players (particularly former ABs) had on young French players in the Top 14. They said these young players were like sponges. Instead of criticising the big number of AB retirees in the Top 14, they said they should cherish it because there was so much learning opportunity from the best in the game. I remember specifically guys like Carter, Conrad Smith and Vito being mentioned.
Surely not as influential as a young NZ player playing in NZ (No. 1 in the world), with players who are arguably the best in their position in the world, and being coached by coaches who are arguably the best in the world (plus Tana and friends).
Fixed
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From the twitter page of Tier 2 Rugby
Of the France U20 23 today 18 played senior pro rugby for their clubs this season, between them 175 matches, 81 starts, 7223 minutes. Easily the most of any side in the comp. By comparison NZ U20 had 11 who played ITM Cup rugby, between them 48 matches, 23 starts, 2219 minutes.
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@chris-b said in 2018 New Zealand U20s:
@rapido Isn't this supposed to be the internet savvy generation? These kids have been brought up with continuous outrage!
True.
Just some good ol Southland rucking, then.
Or maybe they don't have broadband yet in Southland.
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@cgrant said in 2018 New Zealand U20s:
I don't see many of these NZU20 forwards wearing an AB jersey in the future.
This isn't a great class of U20s but I wouldn't be writing them all off yet as they gain experience and some muscle. The props did show that size isn't everything at this level.
McWhannel has a good workrate but too skinny.
Do you remember how skinny Whitelock was when he played for the U20s?
I like what I've seen from McWhannell and expect him to be a regular in the Waikato team this season, and possibly a squad member for the Chiefs from next year. He has a big engine and plenty of speed for a lock. Two examples from this mornings game. The first was midway through the 1st half when he made an important covering tackle in the midfield to stop a French counterattack that had breached the backline defence. The second was being in support for the break that should have resulted in the 2nd try if Jackson didn't drop the ball.
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[link text](link url)https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12069736
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@bovidae said in 2018 New Zealand U20s:
@cgrant said in 2018 New Zealand U20s:
I don't see many of these NZU20 forwards wearing an AB jersey in the future.
This isn't a great class of U20s but I wouldn't be writing them all off yet as they gain experience and some muscle. The props did show that size isn't everything at this level.
McWhannel has a good workrate but too skinny.
Do you remember how skinny Whitelock was when he played for the U20s?
I like what I've seen from McWhannell and expect him to be a regular in the Waikato team this season, and possibly a squad member for the Chiefs from next year. He has a big engine and plenty of speed for a lock. Two examples from this mornings game. The first was midway through the 1st half when he made an important covering tackle in the midfield to stop a French counterattack that had breached the backline defence. The second was being in support for the break that should have resulted in the 2nd try if Jackson didn't drop the ball.
Ian Jones and Norm Maxwell had great AB careers. Not everyone is Brad Thorn or Troy Flavell.
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Agreed. I am excited by what I have seen from McWhannell all year. He has huge energy, a great leap, tackles with enthusiasm, and has speed and handling skills. He is a bit reminiscent of a young Brodie Retallick, and has time to bulk up. Flanders is abrasive and energetic and the two hookers look quite skilled. Mafileo and Cobb look promising at prop.
I hope the Chiefs sign up Roe quickly. His hold-up tackle over the line, and turnover were not his first for the Under 20s. He shows great speed on the break too, but sadly no opportunities today, and a booming box-kick - which was sighted today.
Clarke got better during the game, but looked a bit underdone. Koroi is always a threat. Most of the backs have shown talent at times. So, I am happy with the overall performances of the team this year - provided they play well in the bronze play-off.
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It is an ok team, I think you will find with the NZ set up we have one poor year and then a better year.
Both hookers, McWhannell and Christie do okay and will make it to super rugby I think, While Koroi will stick to 7s now. Plummer will play super cause he is with Blues while others could make squads. I think the two class players are Flanders and Clarke.
As for next year a number are returning.
Props Cobb and Uluilakepa and Flanders at 8.
In backs Proctor, Gregory, Clarke, Trask and Faainagnuku.
also Prop Ollie Norris and midfield Quinn Tupaea who have been brought over as inj cover.
Others who have been in training camps are Vaai (lock) and Toala (15) plus Etene Nanai. -
I watched that 'stamp' incident live and rewound it a couple of times to try and see what happened.
First he went to step over the French player on his way to clear the ball. IMO he went for a sly stamp on the arm when he found he couldn't put his foot down where he planned to. He also took no care with his trailing leg and that's what caught the head.
Looked like an attitude of 'if you're going to lie there you deserve to be walked over and I have no responsibility for your safety'
Is was more that he 'trod' on the player than stamped. Lifted the knee to get over then thought fuck it and put the foot down on the arm.
Deserves a ban for trampling without care. He could have pulled out and let the ref penalise the player in the way. I think the foot to the head was incidental to the lack of care elsewhere.Dumb thing to do as a young halfback looking for a career as that shit will now stick with him for future incidents.
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@chris said in 2018 New Zealand U20s:
[link text](link url)https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12069736
Must be a bummer for the two that only made it as far as NPC
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@98blueandgold I expect there will be quite a few more from last years Hastings Boys HS champions team in addition to Flanders and Toala: Josiah Tavita-Metcalfe (prop), Jeriah Mua (loosie), Lincoln McClutchie (first five-eighth), Folau Fakatava (halfback), possibly Kianu Kereru-Symes (prop) and Kini Naholo (if he decides to play for NZ) all have a good chance of making the team next year.
