Hawke's Bay rugby 2018
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6 or 7 boys in the squad straight out of school. 2 of them front rowers. So looks like we are going to have the Hawkes bay under 20 front row with Farrell and Devery still under 20 this year.
Mclutchie will end up being a halfback in the future, won’t grow much taller than what he is even though has all the tricks in the books. He’s smaller than Ihaia.Can’t wait to see how Flanders and Toala go. Think they could add some impact
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This is last year's squad and the info I have about signings and departures:
Michael Allardice - signed
Jarvy Aoake - has left the Bay (Waikato)
Mark Braidwood
Richard Buckman - won't retun (going overseas?)
Geoff Cridge - will he be back from a serious injury in time (assuming he's signed)?
Israel Dagg - signed but maybe with ABs?
Jacob Devery
Ash Dixon - off contract, no info about re-signing yet
Pasqualle Dunn - signed
Mason Emerson - signed
Gareth Evans - signed
Tiaan Falcon - signed
Tim Farrell - signed? will he be back from a serious injury in time?
Matt Gardner
Hayden Hann
Mason Kean
Tony Lamborn - off-contract
Jason Long
Jonah Lowe - signed
Ben May - signed
Sam McNicol - signed
Marino Mikaele-Tu'u
Nick Palmer
Pouri Rakete-Stones
Hugh Renton - to Canterbury?
Brodie Retallick - signed, but no doubt with ABs
Fa'alemiga Selesele - off-contract?
Cardiff Vaega
TJ Vaega
Brad Weber - signed
Ihaia West - won't retun (going overseas?)
Ellery WilsonInjury cover:
Chris Eaton - playing in Spain. Unsure whether he'll be back
Zac DonaldsonOther (HB Saracens) players, who played for the Magpies in 2017:
Josh Eden-Whaitiri
Lucas Goodin
Ben Hamelink
Ricky Hayes
Ben Parsons
Jorian Tangaere - had to hang up his boots for medical reasons
Dan Snee - without contract (may have to play in Spain if that country qualifies for 2019 RWC; will also consider hanging up his boots)Uncapped but signed:
Folau Fakatava
Devan Flanders
Lincoln McClutchie
Danny ToalaI suspect Devery, Rakete-Stones and Mikaele-Tu'u are signed, but couldn't find any source confirming that. Cheez, I really hope they all are! On the other hand, Selesele's contract might have expired. Can't imagine he was signed for more than 2 years.
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@footy01 Are they? Never saw an announcement of that on HBRU FB or in HBT, only the four I mentioned. Good signings.
Edited to add:
I found the announcement of the sigining of Kianu Kereru-Symes.
http://www.sporty.co.nz/magpies/newsarticle/56694 -
Posted by Havelock North Rugby Club on FB:
Morena Village whanau. We are in need of some help with accommodation for Sam Ulufonua who is here from Auckland to play for the village. Thanks to Richard Kinnear and HBHS he is in work and is contracted with HBRFU as a devlopment player however wanting to make the Magpies. If anyone can help or is looking for a flatmate/roomie/boarder please let Tom Blake or Richard Kinnear know ASAP. Sam is a lock 23 yrs 6ft.4 ..134kg. Sam is looking to settle here for awhile...........This is from his player profile on the Auckland Rugby website:
Sam Ulufonua Club: Ponsonby Position: Lock Height: 1.96m Weight: 130kg DOB: January 3, 1996 Caps: 2 Points: 0From the Mitre 10 Cup stats page:
Sam Ulufonua
Position: Lock
Date of Birth: 03-01-1996 (22 yo)
Height: 1.96 m
Weight: 130 kg47 Minutes Played
2 Total Games
0 Tries
0 Metres
1 Carries
0 Average Gain
0 Clean Breaks
0 Passes
0 Offloads
1 Turnovers Conceded
0 Defenders Beaten
6 Succ. Tackles
1 Missed Tackles
85.7 Tackle Succ. Rate
0 Penalties Con. When Attacking
0 Penalties Con. When Defending
0 Yellow Cards
0 Red Cards -
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@number-10 So now they're attracting players from outside the province for club rugby? It's bad enough that's it's necessary at NPC level, but aren't they now taking the place of potential Bay talent? Unless there's a shortage of club rugby talent, I'm not happy about it. These outsiders may stall the development of local players.
Do you know where they're from? I sincerely hope that after years of being flooded by Canterbury rejects, we're now not going to get an influx of Auckland rejects. Geez, I hope they're at least from the Hurricanes catchment, preferably the smaller Heartland unions.
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@number-10 said in Hawke's Bay rugby 2018:
HBRU announced a $15,000 profit for 2017 tonight, their 19th consecutive profit.
Reserves are now $1.16 million. Income was $150,000 down at $4.2 million
Magpies first two games are away to Southland and Otago.
Hugh Renton seems to have gone to Canterbury, and Ihaia West and Richard Buckman won't be back.
Article in the HBT:
He did with a $15,334 surplus. While it was the union's 20th consecutive surplus it was $186,914 less than the previous year's surplus. Total revenue dropped $153,052 to $4,264,159. "Sponsorship and gaming grants were down as were gate takings and that is aligned to team performance," new union CEO Jay Campbell said, referring to the fact the Magpies under achieved for the second consecutive season. NPC match income dropped $21,410 to $92,779. However, for the second consecutive year the union's equity was more than $1 million ... $1,169,492 to be precise, an increase of $15,335 on last year's. The New Zealand Rugby Union's grant increased by $24,850 to $1,630,743. Total expenses for the union dropped $248,551 to $4,230,961. Expenses for the Magpies amounted to $1,792,301 and the meeting heard a big factor in this was wages for injured Super Rugby players as well as their replacements as injured Super Rugby players don't receive ACC payments. Smith told the 62 delegates the union will aim for a $10,766 surplus during the 2018 season. "We're in a tough environment," he added.The only contested election at the meeting saw incumbent director Mark Hamilton beat Hawke's Bay Racing Centre CEO Andrew (Butch) Castles 21-11 for an elected director's position. Two co-opted board members will be elected at the next board meeting. Smith, who retired by rotation, is seeking one of these positions and Colin Francis has retired by rotation and won't be seeking re-election. Along with Smith, MAC's Anthony Morley, Castles, Napier Old Boys Marist's Craig Riddiford, Union's relationship manager Danny Gough and union life member and former NZRU director Richard Hunt are seeking election to one of the two berths. Former All Black, Magpies great and former union president Blair Furlong was awarded life membership.Officers elected: Patron, Neil Thimbleby; president, Paul Daniel; chairman, Brendan Mahony; directors, Peter Fleming, Grant Gilbert (co-opted secondary schools rep), Mark Hamilton, Steve Lunn, Mavis Mullins, Mike Smith, Mark Sowman.The rest of the article is mainly about the constitution.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503460&objectid=12003143
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So, I guess we're going to have a tough season with mostly young guns.
Odd that Renton has moved to Canterbury. You have to think that he'd have had some contact with the union?
Also, what were the Canes doing selecting him constantly only to kick him to the curb now?
So, all our income was down (gate takings, sponsorship etc) - I guess that's what happens when you keep keep a coach past his sell by date.
Oh well. It's doom and gloom now but hopefully the team can fire on the field under a new coach.
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Maybe it’s because HB had no room for Renton.
Club Rugby is pretty poor compared to other places, Marist beat everyone by 50 points. Big Gap between the top teams and bottom teams. Hopefully the outside players will lift the club Comp and bring others up to there standards -
I watched a lot of club rugby last year.
I agree with @footy01 it was poor.
The reaction of Havelock North and Taradale to importing players is more to do with their own poor seasons last year - they both missed the playoffs, Havelock North for the first time since 1994 and Taradale for the first time since 2005. "Can't allow that to happen again, mate - what will our sponsors do?"
As @Nepia correctly points out HBRU sponsorship and gate revenue dropped as the Magpies had a poor season. Sponsorship also drops for clubs when they have a poor season.
As with all clubs in NZ, Havelock North and Taradale are only interested in their own well-being. They don't get paid, or get an incentive for developing players for the provincial team. HB clubs resent losing their Magpies at the business end of the season when they get taken away into pre-NPC camp.
This is not exclusive to Hawke's Bay but is in the other Mitre 10 Cup provinces as well. Some of them have got around the second part (losing their rep players at the business end of the season because of pre-NPC) by starting their season earlier or reducing the number of premier clubs. Some like Counties Manukau start second week in March, but then you get criticism for starting too early. Some like Taranaki (I think) have reduced their number of premier clubs to eight to start at that normal time and still finish before end of July to keep their rep players for the playoffs.
Quantity and quality of talent coming through from the High Schools into club rugby is low. The stars get picked up by the HB Academy and usually go straight into Premier grade for a club. But their 1st XV team-mates that don't get picked up into the Academy might play colts grade and a lot just don't play at all because they're not with their mates anymore. Right there is the well known drop out rate.
A problem is with the schools themselves. The clubs and the HBRU (as with the other provinces) have to deal with school principals. School principals look at help, funding, and a balance sheet for their schools. This includes rugby, which in real terms is exclusively their first XV. The XV's below the first XV hardly get any consideration by comparison, which is another contribution to the well-known High Schools drop out rate - it's the first XV or nothing.
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@Number-10 Why have Marist become a Super Club just recently? There was always a decent competition between the top 4 or so teams. Does the competition setup issues you highlight contribute to this?
I don't think anyone has a problem with clubs importing players, as long as they're quality.
The Renton case is a weird one though, the Canes and the Magpies carried him while he was injured and then he's gone to Canterbury. that seems odd. Was there a falling out? Has he retired due to his injuries and just going down there for education?
I'm not sure I'm onboard with the schools stuff. HB only (really) has two schools to choose from and generally there's decent talent coming through one or the other. Hell, Manawatu were competitive (not top drawer, but accounted well fro themselves) with a team almost exclusively from PNBS (and the odd Fielding player) for a few years - TBF they had Rennie as coach and not Philpott. Uni must contribute to the drop out rate as well, but that is no different than normal though.
You sound like you've had some interactions with the principals?
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@stargazer said in Hawke's Bay rugby 2018:
@number-10 So now they're attracting players from outside the province for club rugby? It's bad enough that's it's necessary at NPC level, but aren't they now taking the place of potential Bay talent? Unless there's a shortage of club rugby talent, I'm not happy about it. These outsiders may stall the development of local players.
Do you know where they're from? I sincerely hope that after years of being flooded by Canterbury rejects, we're now not going to get an influx of Auckland rejects. Geez, I hope they're at least from the Hurricanes catchment, preferably the smaller Heartland unions.
I think there clearly is a shortage of talent in club rugby and outside imports are needed particularly for clubs like MAC and Tamatea.The new players shouldnt be guaranteed itm cup contracts,imo but should have to prove themselves in club rugby first.Surely a stronger and more even club competition is beneficial to everyone and ultimately hopefully the magpies.
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I only just now discovered that Joe Penitito is playing in France since October. He's with Club Sportif Beaunois, which competes in Pool 2 of Fédérale 2.
I read his interview on their website, and reading between the lines, he's there because he didn't get selected for the Magpies. So it looks like he won't be back to compete for a Magpies spot and that's a real shame. I rate the guy.
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@stargazer said in Hawke's Bay rugby 2018:
Club Sportif Beaunois
That is a somewhat obscure name. Any guess as to what sort of standard they could be rated against in NZ terms eg Mitre 10 Development sides, Heartland Champ etc? Still do not see what the former coach saw in that import guy that plays 7s for Samoa ahead of him.
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@higgins I always thought that Fédérale 1 is close to Heartland level, so Fédérale 2 should be below that. Maybe @mooshld can tell us?
Btw I think they brought Selesele in at a point that Penitito was injured. Wasn't he injured for about the whole 2016 NPC season? Or was that the year before? He should have been picked in 2017 though, no doubt about that!
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@nepia said in Hawke's Bay rugby 2018:
@Number-10 Why have Marist become a Super Club just recently? There was always a decent competition between the top 4 or so teams. Does the competition setup issues you highlight contribute to this?
I don't think anyone has a problem with clubs importing players, as long as they're quality.
The Renton case is a weird one though, the Canes and the Magpies carried him while he was injured and then he's gone to Canterbury. that seems odd. Was there a falling out? Has he retired due to his injuries and just going down there for education?
I'm not sure I'm onboard with the schools stuff. HB only (really) has two schools to choose from and generally there's decent talent coming through one or the other. Hell, Manawatu were competitive (not top drawer, but accounted well fro themselves) with a team almost exclusively from PNBS (and the odd Fielding player) for a few years - TBF they had Rennie as coach and not Philpott. Uni must contribute to the drop out rate as well, but that is no different than normal though.
You sound like you've had some interactions with the principals?
Napier OB Marist have had a very settled team in the last couple of years. In 2017 and 2016 combined they only lost three frontline players from the year before: David Benson (in 2017) and Fergus McCool and Dan Walker (both in 2016).
Also they must have a good coach in Craig Gowler who has been their premier coach since 2014. He is getting results and a contributory factor to that must be he also relates well to the players. By contrast, Clive were beaten finalists in last year's Maddison Trophy and have sacked their coach Blair Cross because the players didn't want him.
Don't know anything about Hugh Renton's decision to go to Canterbury. He obviously was off-contract with both Hurricanes and Hawke's Bay to do so. Apparently Magpies lock Tom Parsons, who went to Manawatu in 2015, is returning.
The schools in HB that produce the most rugby talent are Napier BHS (roll 1200), Hastings BHS (roll 750), Lindisfarne College (roll 400) and St Johns College (roll 350). It is not a coincidence that they are also boys-only schools.
All four now participate in North Island secondary school rugby competitions - but to do so requires (extra special) funding for their first XV's, which relates back to the earlier point I made in my previous post. School principals are happy to take help, whether it be financial, admin, coaching of their teams by clubs/provincial unions but there is no guarantee of anything in return to the clubs/provincial unions who might want to help.
The relationship is one-sided. First XV players that leave can go to another club. First XV players can go to other unions. Provincial RU academies don't want bulk players, literally have no room for them in in-take numbers or financially; they only want the best players anyway.
Taradale RC used to have such a relationship with Taradale HS, but I'm not certain they do now.
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@stargazer said in Hawke's Bay rugby 2018:
@higgins I always thought that Fédérale 1 is close to Heartland level, so Fédérale 2 should be below that. Maybe @mooshld can tell us?
Btw I think they brought Selesele in at a point that Penitito was injured. Wasn't he injured for about the whole 2016 NPC season? Or was that the year before? He should have been picked in 2017 though, no doubt about that!
Only the top 2 levels of Rugby in France are fully professional Fed 2 is Amateur club rugby. But there are over a 100 teams and they play in their local pools before progressing to a national comp. Anyway its normally amateur but you sometimes hear about semi pro setups.
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