How would you define the AB's game style at the moment?
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Our line is breached easily and often these days. The defense scramble well but I don't remember so many line breaks against us in the one season. Im getting to that point in my life though, where Im remembering a "golden age"...
There have been some big personnel changes, Coles, Moody and Ben Smith out of selection at different parts of the season have not helped our cause. But we absolutely missed Retallick the most. So its hard to say we have a particular style of play when I feel for much of this season we have been forced to rejig in key areas. You could argue they're all key areas I suppose. But I felt like we were playing helter skelter rugby for much of the season. Certainly in the later stages of the season.
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@stargazer I always found French fans to be really respectful, almost awestruck when playing the ABs.
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@taniwharugby said in How would you define the AB's game style at the moment?:
@stargazer I always found French fans to be really respectful, almost awestruck when playing the ABs.
The Interent is different:
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@taniwharugby Most French fans that I've met indeed are. But this is the internet. There were also very negative comments about their own team, but I guess there are always people trying to blame the opponent or refs for their own team's failures (just as on any site or forum, even the Fern sometimes
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I dont speak French, so very easy to avoid those sites
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We are passive in defense and let the opposition cross the advantage line too easily. And we're always vulnerable at breakdown as we seem to under commit players to win the ball. When defending in our own 22 we always seems to give away penalties/cards. And we seem to kick too much. Makes for a frustrating watch in 2017.
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@tewaio said in How would you define the AB's game style at the moment?:
We are passive in defense and let the opposition cross the advantage line too easily. And we're always vulnerable at breakdown as we seem to under commit players to win the ball. When defending in our own 22 we always seems to give away penalties/cards. And we seem to kick too much. Makes for a frustrating watch in 2017.
What I don't get is why, having made a load of tackles, when we finally get the pill back we go maybe two phases before kicking it to the oppo so we can have another five minutes without the ball. It's as though they're regarding these games largely as tackle practice.
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@pakman said in How would you define the AB's game style at the moment?:
@tewaio said in How would you define the AB's game style at the moment?:
We are passive in defense and let the opposition cross the advantage line too easily. And we're always vulnerable at breakdown as we seem to under commit players to win the ball. When defending in our own 22 we always seems to give away penalties/cards. And we seem to kick too much. Makes for a frustrating watch in 2017.
What I don't get is why, having made a load of tackles, when we finally get the pill back we go maybe two phases before kicking it to the oppo so we can have another five minutes without the ball. It's as though they're regarding these games largely as tackle practice.
It's about getting Cane the recognition he deserves.
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@antipodean said in How would you define the AB's game style at the moment?:
@crucial said in How would you define the AB's game style at the moment?:
@pakman said in How would you define the AB's game style at the moment?:
Interview of Steve Hansen in UK's Times indicates that ABs are holding a few things back this year. It would appear have gone into certain games with instructions NOT to a particular tactic, e.g. box kicks. Trying to make team adaptable and keep other teams from working them out too much, I guess.
So I guess on the weekend he told TJP to pass like crap and BB to stand flat footed then shovel the ball out to see how well they coped with it?
I have to admit though, they only played the direct game for a short period to get the needed points than backed off again.It's clear to me that they know what to revert to in order to take control of a game. Hansen has stated clearly that they're trying to broaden their game.
I recall the chicken little episodes during the RWC despite him telling everyone they had a plan. Part of me is convinced that following the extraordinary success of 2016, combined with injuries this year, they're keeping it as simple as possible.
I don't know if it is wishful thinking but I tend to agree.
The talk at the moment is the the NH teams have worked out how to play against the ABs. The rush defences, starving them of ball etc etc.
Going into games with a plan to find ways to win even if the opposition is doing all of that is smart thinking.
As for giving the ball back. Yes, that is frustrating, but the ABs also know that the one thing that cant be planned for is the transition to attack after an error. If you manage to repel the invaders long enough then kick it back to them a say 'have another crack' they get frustrated and force the issue. We feed off those resultant errors like Gerry Brownlie at a buffet.
What has also been noticable is the very sparse use of set plays (which we are very good at).
On the weekend the call was made to put the game to bed using one and a similar thing happened in the Scotland game.
One thing that was learned as far back as 2003 is to keep your powder as dry as possible. -
@crucial Agree. As a long time watcher I've also thought I've noticed that at Twickenham, which has more cameras than a bull can s***, ABs have been especially loathe to reveal their hand.
And I simply can't believe that these tactics (tackle practice) are the what the coaches consider their A game.
Time will tell.
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@pakman said in How would you define the AB's game style at the moment?:
@crucial Agree. As a long time watcher I've also thought I've noticed that at Twickenham, which has more cameras than a bull can s***, ABs have been especially loathe to reveal their hand.
That will make things very interesting next year.
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@tewaio said in How would you define the AB's game style at the moment?:
We are passive in defense and let the opposition cross the advantage line too easily. And we're always vulnerable at breakdown as we seem to under commit players to win the ball. When defending in our own 22 we always seems to give away penalties/cards. And we seem to kick too much. Makes for a frustrating watch in 2017.
Agree. The NH teams as well as the Lions seem to have mastered the rush defence a lot better than the SH teams. It was noticeable how much quicker Scotland's line speed was compared to ours. I don't know why we aren't trying to focus on this as it puts the opposition under so much of pressure.
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@akan004 said in How would you define the AB's game style at the moment?:
@tewaio said in How would you define the AB's game style at the moment?:
We are passive in defense and let the opposition cross the advantage line too easily. And we're always vulnerable at breakdown as we seem to under commit players to win the ball. When defending in our own 22 we always seems to give away penalties/cards. And we seem to kick too much. Makes for a frustrating watch in 2017.
Agree. The NH teams as well as the Lions seem to have mastered the rush defence a lot better than the SH teams. It was noticeable how much quicker Scotland's line speed was compared to ours. I don't know why we aren't trying to focus on this as it puts the opposition under so much of pressure.
Interesting that (from memory) NZ XV were quite dominant in tackles against French XV. And not so keen on 'tackle practice'?
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@akan004 said in How would you define the AB's game style at the moment?:
@tewaio said in How would you define the AB's game style at the moment?:
We are passive in defense and let the opposition cross the advantage line too easily. And we're always vulnerable at breakdown as we seem to under commit players to win the ball. When defending in our own 22 we always seems to give away penalties/cards. And we seem to kick too much. Makes for a frustrating watch in 2017.
Agree. The NH teams as well as the Lions seem to have mastered the rush defence a lot better than the SH teams. It was noticeable how much quicker Scotland's line speed was compared to ours. I don't know why we aren't trying to focus on this as it puts the opposition under so much of pressure.
For the very reason I mentioned earlier. Rush defence is basically a negative play. It may reduce the options of the other team but if/when they do make an error or try too hard you aren't in a position to capitalise and switch to attack.
Take Ioane's intercept the other day. If we used a rush up and in defence we would have simply forced another ruck and recycle. Instead we put pressure on individuals to make quick decisions and that paid of because the poor decision for a wide pass created the opportunity for him to fly into the gap and take the ball. -
The kicking game was generally poor this year , half of that I put at BBs feet the other half due to Bender’ s abscence. The rush defenses rattled us but that is because are execution was often poor , when we executed there was loads of space up the middle for our wings. The tackling teqnique has been adjusted I think to go lower, but we don’t get any turnovers I think we used to get loads from players other than our 7 but they rarely seem to now.
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@crucial The downside of a semi rush defensive system which is what we are using is that the opposition gets to hold on to the ball for multiple phases, like Wales did on the weekend. They do not feel the need to kick it back as they are making the gain line more often than not. Can we afford to tackle for 15+ phases every time the opposition has the ball without eventually tiring ourselves out?
There's a lot of talk as to why BB hasn't been able to recapture his 2016 form and I believe the improved rush defences is a large contributing factor. Cut down the time and space from any player and they will look ordinary.
No system is perfect of course, and you're right to highlight the fact that it negates the counter attacking options in the event of a turnover. But all things considered, I still think the positives outweigh the negatives.
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The key thing the NH teams are doing better is buying in to being patient and upping their basic skills to reduce handling errors. As the BIL showed, if you stick to that plan you can reap rewards.
What they still don't have is instinctive plays off each other to get creative after bashing the brick wall a dozen times -
@dmx we haven't hunted for turnovers for many years now, we are more about pressuring the breakdown forcing errors, although we have numerous players that go for a breakdown turnover when it is there rather than one player who goes for them.
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I see your point but we still seemed to get more in the past but just spread out among players , Hore , Whitelock, Rettallick used to get a few for us , these days I see guys going for turnovers but not with much success. I guess the refs have not been helping much either.
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Right now playing NH sides, I feel like they are always close to stealing our ball at the breakdown, where as we never seem to be in an ideal position to do so. Ireland to me seem to be the best at competing at the breakdown right now.
I've also noticed this year the NH sides are much better at exploiting poor body position of the ball carrier, and attempting to hold the player up.
