Crusaders vs B&I Lions
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@Gunner Just not very gracious - stuff about Crusaders' mistakes letting the Lions into the game and then reiterating that when offered the chances through leading questions to say nice things about the winners. Nothing too awful, just something I thought the NH Press are likely to pounce on.
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Okay, my 2 cents. I haven't read most of the comments, because to my great surprise (well, not really), all these Ferners who have always expressed their dislike towards the Crusaders (remember the hatiest team thread?) suddenly come out of the woodworks to dish the Crusaders and individual players. The frustration about the Crusaders being unbeaten this Super Rugby season must be huge. And the frustration with some of their players not being selected in the AB squad. Really pathetic.
Anyway, I'll try to be more objective about the game.
I never expected a Crusaders win and thought this was - on paper- a much stronger Lions squad than in the previous game (I didn't join the pre-game criticism of the Lions line-up for a reason). This was a near test-strength Lions squad. While the Crusaders have an All Black tight 5 & openside, their backline had only Dagg, no longer fringe AB Tamanivalu and for the rest players in their early twenties, most in their first or 2nd year of SR. They have great skills, but no test experience. I'm still surprised that they are unbeaten in SR, so not really surprised that they were not coping in this game.
Mo'unga wasn't shit. He got slow ball from Hall which made it very easy for the Lions to advance with speed (because they didn't have to guess where the ball was going), giving Mo'unga very little to no time to kick the ball. He only kicked one ball out on the full. He also made some excellent kicks, including the two cross-kicks which were deliberately knocked-on, which went unpenalised (should have been yellow on both occasions). Mo'unga dropped one high ball, slipped a couple of times (like other players, wearing the wrong boots?) & conceded 1 turnover (but also won one); he made crucial tackles (his tackle percentage was 100%), one of which may have saved a try. He wasn't able to play his usual game, due to the Lions coming up very quickly; previews had predicted that the Lions would target him & that's what they did - very effectively.
A lot of what applies to Mo'unga regarding the Lions being very effective in shutting down the Crusaders attack early, applied basically to almost all backs. That didn't make those backs bad; the Lions were just better. A good learning point for Robertson for the rest of the SR season and for Hansen & co for the test matches.
I think the coaches should have named Bateman at 12, who has more experience and might have been able to cope better and Havili could have been more effective from fullback. I'd have preferred Dagg on the right wing and Tamanivalu on the left. I have been keeping an eye on Bridge and for at least the last three or four games, he has been missing crucial tackles. His good attack earlier in the season, which resulted in multiple tries, doesn't seem to work anymore and he is still weak on defence (he conceded most turnovers - 5 - tonight). I would have named him on the bench, or would have picked Mataele, who still has the same flaws, but is physically stronger.
About Dagg, I have a strong impression that he plays like he's trying to spare his knee. It's almost as if he's afraid to get injured again. After all, he has had these knee injuries before and basically that has kept him out of the RWC2015. Looks like a mental thing to me that will probably (hopefully) get right in the AB environment.
Goodhue was a stand-out in the back; he and Mo'unga were the only backs to get one clean break. Matt Todd got the third. That was all, 3 clean breaks. Crotty was dearly missed in the backline; he's a master organiser and communicator, and his absence might have been decisive. This only emphasises how important it is to get him right for AB duties; he's the best of all midfielders in this respect. His defence is also excellent.
The line-out was terrible, particularly early in the game. While Taylor had a few bad throws, the problems seemed more with guys in the line-out. Even always reliable Sam Whitelock missed now and then. Now I think of it, the whole squad looked nervous. Maybe that's the answer, I don't know.
Front row went fine. It was just the ref who was shit. He clearly doesn't get how the scrum works. He was also really inconsistent with rucks & mauls. The commentators said that it seemed that there was a language barrier and that that was why he didn't call 'ruck' or 'maul' or warnings to stay onside (as we're used to in SR). Some penalties came totally out of the blue. And some of those penalties resulted in penalty goals and gave the Lions the win.
The Crusaders defence, particularly close to their try line, worked pretty well, hence the zero tries. This game was lost on penalties and Farrell being good with his boot. It could easily have gone the other way if the Lions player who knocked the ball on deliberately close to his try line had received a well-deserved yellow card. We'll never know.
To be perfectly clear, the Lions deserved their win. Not because the Crusaders were bad though, but because the Lions were better.
Anyway, Blues fans have something to cheer about. The Blues beat a team (though with a weaker line-up) that beat the Crusaders. They're still not in the SR play-offs.
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@Stargazer said in Crusaders vs B&I Lions:
Okay, my 2 cents. I haven't read most of the comments, because to my great surprise (well, not really), all these Ferners who have always expressed their dislike towards the Crusaders (remember the hatiest team thread?) suddenly come out of the woodworks to dish the Crusaders and individual players. The frustration about the Crusaders being unbeaten this Super Rugby season must be huge. And the frustration with some of their players not being selected in the AB squad. Really pathetic.
LOL. You have to take shit for one game this year and you get that worked up.
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Mo'unga wasn't shit. He got slow ball from Hall which made it very easy for the Lions to advance with speed (because they didn't have to guess where the ball was going), giving Mo'unga very little to no time to kick the ball. He only kicked one ball out on the full. He also made some excellent kicks, including the two cross-kicks which were deliberately knocked-on, which went unpenalised (should have been yellow on both occasions). Mo'unga dropped one high ball, slipped a couple of times (like other players, wearing the wrong boots?) & conceded 1 turnover (but also won one); he made crucial tackles (his tackle percentage was 100%), one of which may have saved a try. He wasn't able to play his usual game, due to the Lions coming up very quickly; previews had predicted that the Lions would target him & that's what they did - very effectively.
Good to see the TSF Knight in shining armor award wrapped up so early in the year.
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Tight five went well overall.
Romano missing two kickoffs was poor.
Lineout suffered with Whitelock being the only elite jumper.
Mo'unga was poor in general. I'm surprised they didn't bring Hunt on earlier.
Havili looked like he hadnt played 12 all year.
Goodhue was class.
Dagg took some great contested high balls.Good things from an All Blacks perspective is how well the front row went. But also that apart from four fifths of the tight five (and Dagg), none of the rest of the Crusaders team tonight will be wearing black in a fortnight.
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@Stargazer Now THAT is what I call a passionate Crusaders fan. Love ya work mate.
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@Tim said in Crusaders vs B&I Lions:
@Stargazer said in Crusaders vs B&I Lions:
Okay, my 2 cents. I haven't read most of the comments, because to my great surprise (well, not really), all these Ferners who have always expressed their dislike towards the Crusaders (remember the hatiest team thread?) suddenly come out of the woodworks to dish the Crusaders and individual players. The frustration about the Crusaders being unbeaten this Super Rugby season must be huge. And the frustration with some of their players not being selected in the AB squad. Really pathetic.
LOL. You have to take shit for one game this year and you get that worked up.
I get worked up when all the worms come out of the woodworks to hate on their hatiest players or team. This is by no means the first thread in which this happens. You only have to read all threads about AB selections. Sometimes objectivity is miles away and it's more about 'party lines' and making up reasons to not to prefer a player from a team people don't support. I defend any player/team who is given shit like that. I have done that with players from any team. However, Crusaders haters do it, obviously, more towards Crusaders players and there seem to be many Crusaders haters on the Fern. Also, these same Ferners are the first to start yelling when someone criticises a player of their favourite team. I can still remember how some Ferners were breaking down BB last year when he was going so well for the Canes, as soon as some other Ferners (including me) were suggesting that he would leapfrog Cruden to become the no. first-five for the ABs. I argued against all the nonsense that was spewed and defended arguments why IMO he should be the starting ten (and not the super-sub). Luckily, Hansen has validated that view by means of his selections.
Don't think that will happen with other views I have expressed about certain players. For example, I have been calling for a while that I'd like Bird back in the ABs (before it became 'popular' this year) and Goodes in the front row (his concussions haven't helped him) while others were hyping Hames. Nanai and Havili would get my vote over McKenzie and Naholo, but not Bridge. So funny, if you write this all together in one post, it's harder to put a label on me, isn't it?
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@African-Monkey said in Crusaders vs B&I Lions:
@Stargazer Now THAT is what I call a passionate Crusaders fan. Love ya work mate.
Nope. You still don't get it.
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@Rocky-Rockbottom said in Crusaders vs B&I Lions:
jaysus, Stargazer, imagine if he was a Blues fan, every time his team lost we'd get the Magna Carta seguing into War & fucken Peace
It has nothing to do with the Crusaders losing. You obviously missed my comment that the Lions deserved their win. I just responded to some Ferners who were exaggerating how bad they were playing (they weren't that bad; they just weren't good either) and to the ill-reasoned/unsubstantiated criticism of some players that I just don't agree with. I know some Ferners like to talk about players in terms that sound like attacks, and that just irks me. Not just when Crusaders players are the target. It's just not the way I like to talk about people. Too bad if you don't like that.
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@Stargazer said in Crusaders vs B&I Lions:
Okay, my 2 cents. I haven't read most of the comments, because to my great surprise (well, not really), all these Ferners who have always expressed their dislike towards the Crusaders (remember the hatiest team thread?) suddenly come out of the woodworks to dish the Crusaders and individual players. The frustration about the Crusaders being unbeaten this Super Rugby season must be huge. And the frustration with some of their players not being selected in the AB squad. Really pathetic.
Holy persecution complex, Batman!
Totally not a Crusaders fan though, right?
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From a Lions perspective I was impressed with 1-10. The midfield and the back three less impressive. Way too many blown opportunities. For all the bluster about Te'o his skillset is still more akin to league backrower than rugby midfielder. Watson looked dangerous but then he also watched the ball bounce and he seems like not the most secure fullback around, would only consider him for the wing. Liam Williams too many mistakes and then a horrible option to chip when he did finally latch onto one.
Test team:
Vunipola
Owens
Cole
AWJ
Kruis
POM
SOB
FaletauMurray
Sexton
North
Henshaw
Joseph
Watson
PayneIt's a difficult selection, there isn't a lot between most of the players. A lack of really world class guys screaming pick me unfortunately. Cole and Owens come in to help out the scrum. In the outside backs you have to go for the guys most likely to finish an opportunity when they get it.
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That was disappointing, but gives the tour back its edge.
Taufau was quite poor I thought, Hall was so unbelievably slow, Mounga couldn't cope with the (at times clearly offside) rush defence, Crotty was badly missed, and Bridge had a mare.
And the ref rode the Crusaders scrum (that non-penalty about 5 minutes before half time especially).
This is a great game for Hansen and co - they know they will be facing a Lions side where Murray can land a box-kick on a 5c piece, and good luck stealing Lions lineout ball.
AB backs will be better than the Crusaders though for sure.
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Hall is from Auckland somewhere right? Mounga is from Canterbury? What are you guys talking about, obviously Mounga was great, Hall is to blame for his dropsies, poor options and awful kicks.
@Stargazer whinge all you want, but as said, don't get all persecuted because people dare criticise your crusaders. Myself and many others who've commented have no axe to grind, very weird you'd go off on one about that.
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Whee!
