RWC Draw
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@rapido Only two things are clear:
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nobody can tell with certainty how many penalties there were each way (I wouldn't take the word of anyone on that rugbyrefs forum more seriously than anyone on the Fern)
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this situation could easily have been avoided if the Spanish request for a neutral refereeing team had been met and neutral refs had been appointed.
Just as the conclusions that the match was fixed, the refs were corrupt and Spain was a victim of terrible refereeing are premature, I also think conclusions the other way are too quick.
I must say that I don't know who to believe (I'm not "sensing" anything apart from confusion about the facts), just that Rugby Europe has stuffed this up and are responsible for the mess by the stupid referee appointment.
Interesting detail: assuming that the result stands and Romania has qualified for the 2019 RWC in pool A, it is possible that Spain - if they defeat Portugal, and then Samoa (I consider that unlikely) - end up in the same pool A. Can you imagine what the pool game Romania v Spain will be like next year? They'll need the best ref and ARs possible, and extra security guards.
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Unlikely to happen given the road ahead, but it would be great if Spain and Romania met in RWC Pool A!
A brutal game where the Romanians have the edge but keep getting penalised by highly pedantic officials.
Spain to win it with a controversial try in the last minute... going against TV ref decision... conversion successful for the 1 point win!!! Vamos!!!!(After the match Ref Wayne Barnes is found to have a Spanish grandmother...:)
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I still haven't watched the full 80, haven't found it yet.
I watch this video on the ref by a Spanish fan.
Really isn't much to see here imo.
Belgium smashing Spain in the scrum. This is euro rugby, of course they're going to win the penalty count.
A penalty for chat back, when a Spanish player is trying to cover the mouth of his potty mouthed team mate to shut him up.
The most supposedly controversial moment; Spain going in for a try on a penalty advantage and ref whistles it back for the penalty. Well, correctly called back as Spain made the break from an obstruction which ref calls. Anyway he blows whistle before last tackler who pulls out.
This is such a social media festered witch hunt , wannabe victims.
Heavy punishment needed for Spanish players.
The video above is quite good as I can't understand much Spanish so not distracted by the stupid, like in that other video with the hopeless amateur ref.
I basically couldn't see what the complainants were for in so many of them as the video rolls in real time. Which is what the ref is also doing. -
World Rugby committee to review Rugby World Cup qualifier between Spain and Belgium
World Rugby has commissioned an independent disputes committee to review the controversial end to Europe's World Cup qualification period. The decisive match between Belgium and Spain will be front and centre of the investigation, with the world governing body "deeply concerned" about the deployment of a Romanian officiating team."World Rugby was deeply concerned about the circumstances surrounding the Belgium versus Spain Rugby Europe Championship match, a match that was decisive in the context of Rugby World Cup 2019 qualification," said a statement from the sport's governing body. "Specifically, concerns related to the process and perception of Rugby Europe's appointment of a match official team that was not neutral in the context of qualification and failing to act on Spain's concerns in respect of the appointment. "While recognising Rugby Europe's responsibility to review events in their own competition, given the context and significance of the fixture World Rugby acted immediately to request information relating to the above issues from Rugby Europe and participating unions." World Rugby's executive committee and board had advocated a replay of the Belgium-Spain tie but unspecified issues around player eligibility appear to have clouded the issue yet further. "Given this information concerns potential breaches of World Rugby regulations, and given the complexity and interconnectivity of the issues, a full and independent review is warranted," the statement added. "This is in the best interests of the sport, teams and fans and is fully supported by Rugby Europe." Rugby Europe has also convened an independent judicial panel into player conduct after the match in question, with disgruntled members of the Spain team appearing to confront Iordachescu as he left the field..
If WR in its statement says that
the World Rugby Executive Committee and Rugby World Cup Board felt that a replay would be in the best interests of the game.but then orders an independent review because
new information relating to player eligibility in the Rugby Europe Championship has been presented to World Rugby by the participating unionsthen we still do'nt know whether the qualification match will be replayed? Geez. Those two home and away matches against Samoa for the country that misses out on direct qualification are in June. They'd better hurry up!
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The eligibility questions will impact any decision, after World Rugby set the precedent in disqualifying Tahiti.
Romania fielded an ineligible Tongan (played a sevens event for Tonga in 2013) in the competition. Spain has fielded 3 possibly ineligible players (Belie, Grammatico, Fuster) and Belgium one since last RWC. Russia has had Rudoy's eligibility questioned, but seems squeaky clean. If matches are ruled out, any one of Spain, Romania and Russia might qualify!
I can't help but feel that there was a degree of self-fulfilling prophecy (as mentioned earlier) in the way the Spanish played, after the uproar about Romanian officials being appointed before the match. I do feel sorry for Iordachescu, the referee, who should not have been placed in the position he was, with people wound up to bag him.
It will be interesting, and certainly controversial, to see who gets to play the playoff with Samoa.
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Why on earth did WR think "a replay would be in the best interests of the game." ?
Do they make up their policies by reading outraged twitter feeds?
It's all going to be elementary as both Romania and Spain will be disqualified anyway, so why even slightly open the replay can of worms?
I feel let down by some poor leadership.
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@rapido I'm sure they've had people with more expertise & less bias watching the footage of that game, and have had a better assessment of what went on, than biased people on rugby blogs/forums/social media (biased towards both sides, by the way).
The replay issue came before the eligibility issue; that's why they took that decision first, before they received info about eligibility issues. Read the statement!
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@stargazer said in RWC Draw:
@rapido I'm sure they've had people with more expertise & less bias watching the footage of that game, and have had a better assessment of what went on, than biased people on rugby blogs/forums/social media (biased towards both sides, by the way).
What, in their history, would lead you to that conclusion?
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@antipodean I've more faith in WR than screaming and yelling people on social media.
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@stargazer said in RWC Draw:
@rapido I'm sure they've had people with more expertise & less bias watching the footage of that game, and have had a better assessment of what went on, than biased people on rugby blogs/forums/social media (biased towards both sides, by the way).
The replay issue came before the eligibility issue; that's why they took that decision first, before they received info about eligibility issues. Read the statement!
If you read their statement - The replay issue is floated as they were not being happy with the referee appointment process, they haven't actually got to the nitty-gritty of reviewing the referee performance.
That's outrageous. WR themselves have plenty of history of referees in RWCs officiating games that impact their home countries. E.g. Defending champs South Africa getting knocked out one game before playing NZ in 2011.
Spain, (mostly) lost the match in their own heads because they weren't happy with referee appointment process.
I think Spain should get tougher heads, rather than matches should possibly be replayed.
I'm a bit suspicious that Pichot is a bit of a populist. Which is fine, as long as I agree with his populist opinion (such as tightening the eligibilty laws)..... but isn't fine if I disagree with it (rewarding self-defeating ref-whinging cry babies).
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Having considered all available information, the World Rugby Executive Committee and Rugby World Cup Board felt that a replay would be in the best interests of the game.
is obviously just a typo, was supposed to say;
Having considered all available information, the World Rugby Executive Committee and Rugby World Cup Board felt that in future World Rugby will be responsible for refereeing appointments in RWC qualifying tournaments. -
Delighted about all that. Such amateurism from Europe Rugby on so many levels.
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A Rugby Europe Independent judicial committee has sanctioned five players, including a 43-week ban handed to replacement back row Sebastien Rouet for physical abuse of a match official and verbal abuse. Scrumhalf Guillaume Rouet has received 36 weeks for the same offences, while Pierre Barthere, Lucas Guillaume and Mathieu Belie have been given 14 weeks each for threatening actions/words directed at a match official.Lengthy bans for Spanish rugby players after Belgian blow-up
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@stargazer Good. Their behaviour was unacceptable and a clear example of pre-determination.
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Geezus, World Rugby is really stuffing this up!
Rugby's double standards - eligibility debacle to hamstring Samoan World Cup hopes
Manu Samoa's place at the 2019 Rugby World Cup may be in further doubt - thanks to more bungling from the powers that be. The Samoans were set to play off against either Spain or Portugal in June for a place at next year's tournament in Japan. But they might not have their best players available, now that World Rugby has launched an investigation into reports of Belgium and Romania fielding ineligible players in earlier RWC qualifying rounds. And unlike the situation with Oceania neighbours Tahiti, who were disqualified after also fielding an ineligible player against the Cook Islands in March, it seems the Belgians and Romanians might get another chance to qualify. If replays of the affected matches are allowed, it'll delay the final qualifier involving Samoa from June until July-August, when some of their best players will be unavailable, due to pre-season commitments with their European clubs. Fiji star Nemani Nadolo has fired up on Twitter about the saga. "What a JOKE!!" the former Crusaders wing wrote. "This just makes it messy for the Manu Samoa players and their pro clubs overseas! July/August is an important time for prepping with the new season... It's tough as it is trying to convince our clubs to go play for our countries!" Many top Samoans play for the wealthy European clubs in leagues such as France's Top 14 and those clubs don't have to release their players outside the June test window.Pacific Rugby Players chief executive Aayden Clarke calls the situation "definitely not ideal" and points out that the vetting process around player eligibility should have been sorted out before kickoff. "We wouldn't be in this situation if all the 'i's had been dotted and the 't's crossed, but it's just about dealing with that now," Clarke told Newshub. "From a players' perspective, the uncertainty of when they'll be playing and so forth is definitely not ideal." There was already controversy around Belgium's last match against Spain in March, won 18-10 by the Belgians, but refereed by a Romanian. That result had initially sent Romania through to the next round. The Spaniards had earlier officially questioned the official's appointment over possible bias, but were ignored by governing body Rugby Europe, whose president, Octavian Morariu, is also Romanian. Rugbyworld.com reports that World Rugby had initially felt a Belgium-Spain replay would be in the game's best interests. But after news emerged of the latest eligibility debacle, the governing body convened an emergency committee to investigate, before determining what steps to take next. The fresh controversy surrounds a Tongan-born centre who played for Romania and a French-born hooker who played for Belgium. Sione Faka'osilea qualified for Romania through residency, but played one World Series tournament for Tonga's national sevens team back in 2013, ruling him ineligible for his adopted country. Victor Paquet represented France up to under-19 level and reportedly claimed a Belgian great grandmother, but only the birth nation of a grandparent or parent provides that eligibility under World Rugby regulations. Clarke expects World Rugby's hearing to conclude this week and says the Samoans will just play the cards that they've been dealt. But the eligibility saga is again set to adversely impact on the poorer Pacific Island nations, rather than more populous and wealthier European countries.Newshub
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Yes, it's a debacle.
But, the newshub report above didn't give an accurate picture for the delay due to player eligibilty doubts. Mentioning only a 'Romanian' and a 'Belgian'. There's also a 'Spaniard' who played for France U20s at the time France had their U20s designated as their second team.
While at first glance it would seem be fairly simple to me, they're both disqualified - but from my understanding i think, the investigation is needing to deal with;
- Rumania believe they did their due diligence by requesting clearance from the Tongan RU checking if the player had been captured, and Tonga replied he hadn't. So believe their 'due-diligence' had been performed but upended by TRU incompetence
- Spain claim the French U20 player needed to be informed, and sign some form, that the 20 match would 'capture' him - and he didn't/wasn't.
