2017 New Zealand U20s
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@Bovidae I think that Little may have played 10 that year and there was a 12 by the name of Sean Fitzsimmons (maybe?), Maori guy from Gisborne who never went anywhere with his senior career. That maybe 100% incorrect though and I may be thinking of a schools team instead.
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@Crucial said in 2017 New Zealand U20s:
Without checking back in the thread can anyone confirm whether this England side was as badly weakened as I have heard?
I have read a claim of 15 starters unavailable for that game either through injury or being drafted up by Eddie to Argentina.
The counter is that you can have those guys back as long as we can have Falcon, Ioane and JB.It's definitely a depleted team, but 15 starters being out is rubbish. By my count there are 14 players not here that would have been. 5 in Argentina with the seniors (B Curry, T Curry, Isiekwe, Cokanasiga, Maunder) 2 injured before the tour (Shilcock, Evans) and 6 injured during the JWC pre final (Aspland-Robinson, Morris, Wright, Crossdale, Brophy Clews, Street).
However many of those are in duplicate positions so perhaps 9 starters or so. Backline was hardest hit with probably only Malins at 10 who would have started in some hypothetical world where everyone is fit. Injuries and call ups happen though and all teams have to deal with it. None of the players missing are in RI/JB's class and this JAB team would have won comfortably either way.
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I did a quick glance at the 6N team in the final game v the team put out in the final and if you allow for those demoted to the bench the changes aren't that big. I have no idea if front liners weren't available for the 6N though.
All teams get injuries etc or have players made unavailable. I can understand if England were seriously depleted across the board but then compare that with the loss of two players deemed good enough to play for the best team in world. The young England players are no doubt rated well but they were also unlikely to be in an adult England touring squad if the BIL guys were available.
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@Margin_Walker I thought Malins was starting?
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Sorry, should have been clearer. Argument to be made that Malins would be the only back who started the JWC final, that would have started if everyone available. Butler would have been in with a shot, but think they'd have gone with Brophy Clews at 12 as the senior player with AP experience.
Few frontliners unavailable due to club commitments and injury in the 6N. Really not worth debating too much though as JAB clearly very strong this year and every team deals with unavailability of players. Agree that if it wasn't a Lions year Eddie probably wouldn't have taken any of the 5 on tour. He's just used it as a development opportunity.
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@Rapido Other guys in that 1995 team were props Michael Collins and Paul Thomson. Locks Chris Hammett(brother of you know who), and Andrew Gallagher. Reserve loosies were Isitola Maka and Duncan Blaikie. From. Memory Danny Lee was there, along with Daryl Gibson and Cameron Rackham from the first Blues team. Centre Adam Larkin from North Harbour(who went on to play for Ulster for years) was there and James Kerr and Brad Fleming on the wings I think...
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Another citing from the last day of the tournament (there was another one, an Italian, but this one affects his availability for Counties Manukau):
Sione Tuipolotu (Samoa) Samoa number eight Sione Tuipolotu attended a disciplinary hearing before Judicial Officer Charles Cuthbert (UAE) on 18 June, 2017 having been cited by Citing Commissioner John Montgomery (Scotland) for an act contrary to good sportsmanship (biting) in breach of Law 10.4(m) in Samoa's 11th place play-off against Argentina in the World Rugby U20 Championship. Tuipolotu accepted that he had bitten Argentina winger Luciano González and that this warranted a red card. The Judicial Officer considered all of the evidence, including reviewing the video angles, medical report, injury photograph and hearing from Tuipolotu. He classified this as a low-end biting offence, which carries a 12-week entry point. The Judicial Officer considered there were no aggravating factors and significant mitigating factors, including the player's youth, early acceptance of the citing and remorse, in applying the maximum 50 per cent reduction. Tuipolotu is suspended for his next six weeks of rugby on his return to New Zealand with his club Ardmore Marist and thereafter his province Counties Manukau. The player has 48 hours within which to appeal. The written decision will be available here. -
@Nepia said in 2017 New Zealand U20s:
@Bovidae I think that Little may have played 10 that year and there was a 12 by the name of Sean Fitzsimmons (maybe?), Maori guy from Gisborne who never went anywhere with his senior career. That maybe 100% incorrect though and I may be thinking of a schools team instead.
Fitzsimons was in the 1990 team.
I think you are correct about Little, and forgot to mention that.
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At the time of England's Argentina squad being picked. I was reading a uk website article, which had a link to a Cokanasiga try for London Irish.
Ok, it's just 1 try I have seen, and it's 2nd Div. but wow.
Find it strange the Eddie would deny an 18 year old this tournament and take him in a tour as 3rd choice right winger, and not play him.
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Still haven't finished watching a replay of the final, and haven't seen the second half of the French game when they went to custard.
But my standouts.
Jordan: Lovely runner from the back. Pace, and a great step, and eye for the gap. Didn't see much of the other fullback skills required though due to dominance.
Clarke: Pace. Strong around the middle.
Ennor: pace again. Good decision making on attack. Though he looked class.
Aumua: Best of the lot. But also besides the flashy stuff the set piece was solid.
Enari: excellent pass.
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A lot is being said about our backs,but if you think back to some of the previous tournaments,our set piece lineout and scrum has always had a question mark next to it.
This years team apart from some early issues negating lineout drives in the main I thought were very solid,would love to see some stats in and around scrum and lineout,the first 3 x scrums including a tighthead set the tone in the final.
Still shaking my head how the South African no 8 Juarno Augustus,with the greatest respect having not seen many of the junior boks games won the player of the tournament.
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@Steven-Harris said in 2017 New Zealand U20s:
A lot is being said about our backs,but if you think back to some of the previous tournaments,our set piece lineout and scrum has always had a question mark next to it.
This years team apart from some early issues negating lineout drives in the main I thought were very solid,would love to see some stats in and around scrum and lineout,the first 3 x scrums including a tighthead set the tone in the final.
Still shaking my head how the South African no 8 Juarno Augustus,with the greatest respect having not seen many of the junior boks games won the player of the tournament.
Yep, I'm totally convinced that this 'player of the tournament' election results in the best player being elected.
Who on earth lets followers of a FB page decide? Should have asked a group of rugby experts (from various national backgrounds) instead. Now, it is just who comes from a country with the biggest population and only one nominee. Votes between the two English and between the two NZ nominees were always going to be split. And then probably the best player (Aumua) wasn't even nominated! Ah, well, it's that Cup and gold medals that count anyway. -
@Stargazer that explains it,apparently they will name a tournament team as well.
One player that looks like he could be an absolute super star,is the halfback from Georgia,that try against the Irish was top draw. -
@Steven-Harris Mind you, do you think WR really read all the 3.2k comments on the FB post with the nominations? Maybe I'm just cynical, but I never trust things like that.
By the way, I haven't read/heard anything about a tournament team being named. Nothing on their social media or website. Maybe they leave that to real rugby experts, instead of their FB followers?
Yes, I saw that awesome try from the Georgian halfback when he scored it. Fast lad & good stepper.
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Knowledgable crowd in Tblisi, Aumua gets a big applause when he is subbed injured. If that was in nz he would have walked off un acknowledged as the crowd was being subjected to "don't go out in the rain" or "buttercup" some other misery by the PA/DJ to distract us.
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@Steven-Harris said in 2017 New Zealand U20s:
@Stargazer that explains it,apparently they will name a tournament team as well.
One player that looks like he could be an absolute super star,is the halfback from Georgia,that try against the Irish was top draw.Sid Going-esque. He created many opportunities with his running and playmaking.
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@Steven-Harris said in 2017 New Zealand U20s:
A lot is being said about our backs,but if you think back to some of the previous tournaments,our set piece lineout and scrum has always had a question mark next to it.
This years team apart from some early issues negating lineout drives in the main I thought were very solid,would love to see some stats in and around scrum and lineout,the first 3 x scrums including a tighthead set the tone in the final.
Agree with this. But, it is quite hard to pick out individuals in the pack, let alone predict future trajectories.
Front rowers are generally only a year out from schoolboy rules restriction etc.
Last year's soft as butter pack has Quentin Strange now looking excellent at SR level. Etc
That's why I commended the forwards coach further up.
Last year's team had a half with an awesome pass (Nock), Jordie in midfield, Stevenson at the back. But it counts to nought with a back-pedalling pack.
This year's team fairly similar, but with a pack with some backbone.
Good lessons, probably a good lesson for Scott Robertson last year.
