Aussie Pro Rugby
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@MiketheSnow said in Aussie Rugby:
I’d be phoning Lagisquet
Like many of the recent Kiwi coaches, he'd probably be appalled at seeing how bad our skills are
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Aussie Rugby:
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby:
But then you have to ask: which dumb fluffybunny will line up for the job next?
You'd have to be as thick as mince to take that job on now.
but I'd take the job.
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Very Interesting thoughts from the French coach that was with the Wallabies at the RWC -
French coach Pierre-Henry Broncan, in charge of Australia's mauls and attacking rucks until the World Cup, reflects on the Wallabies' failure to progress beyond the group stage.
"On Sunday night, during Portugal-Fiji (24-23), Australia twice came within a point of qualification. How did you feel about that evening, when the Wallabies were finally eliminated?We were all together, the staff and the team, everyone. It was a great atmosphere. We knew we had very little chance of qualifying. The turning point for us came when the Portuguese took a 10-3 lead and immediately had another chance to score. Unfortunately, there was a turnover and, in the process, a Fiji try. There was still time, but at 17-3, it would have been complicated for the Fijians, who had lost the thread of the match and were finding it hard to impose their game.
How would you sum up this World Cup and this failure in the group phase?The team's youth didn't work at this World Cup. They didn't lack experience, they lacked collective experience. I think that, in four years' time, this team will be very competitive, provided we work much harder than the Australian players do in Super Rugby.
We've noticed that the players who play in France, Will Skelton and Richie Arnold, have a much stronger work ethic than the players who play in Australia.Why is that?
Because the Championship is good, there's the European Cup, and you have to train to play every weekend. In Super Rugby, you play a maximum of fifteen matches a year. There's very little continuity. Young Australians lack top-level matches. Super Rugby has lost a lot with the departure of the South Africans and Argentinians. The Championship has become poorer in both quality and quantity.
It will be up to Australian rugby to give Eddie Jones the ability to coach around forty players a year, which is what the French team did after a catastrophic World Cup in 2015. Then came the introduction of JIFFs and, with Fabien Galthié, forty players to prepare for international matches. 28 to 30 players blocked, banned from playing for their clubs during the Six Nations, and preparation intensified around the French team. Australia need to do the same if they are to perform well.
Does the lack of competitiveness in Super Rugby explain the lower quality of training for some players?They're not used to working under pressure, to being consistent in their precision and concentration. You can feel it. They're used to working at high intensity, so that's not the problem, but it's the precision that's lacking. Tactical sense, too. There are very few tacticians among the players. That's down to the youth of this team, the lack of collective experience and the absence of pressure in their Championship.
Despite this, can you see them being strong in four years' time?Absolutely. They have a very young average age, with a lot of players between 19 and 24. These players have enormous potential. If they train really hard, they'll become great players. The quality is there. There are also a few under-20s who are going to make the leap. We'll be taking stock until November in Australia. The crux of the matter will be the financial side. They have the British Lions tour in 2025 and the World Cup in 2027. It's a really interesting four-year project. They need to capitalize on that.
Is it difficult for such young players to bounce back from such a setback? We're thinking in particular of opener Carter Gordon, who completely missed out...On the contrary, it's a very good experience. That's what they need to build on, Carter Gordon first and foremost. He's got four years to work on his footwork and his shooting. Things he doesn't do, or at least hasn't done much of up to now. When you want to be an international No.10 for a big nation, shooting on goal isn't something you do "when I want", it's something you do all the time. It's something he needs to practice. He needs to establish himself at club level as the number 1 goal scorer, and train to get his footing at international level.
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)When the World Cup kicked off, did you really want to go far, despite the fact that you were a forward-looking team?
Yes, but we lost the World Cup the week we lost (Taniela) Tupou and (Will) Skelton. Our scrum and forward pack were much weaker without them. We dominated the French scrum (in a warm-up match on August 27 at the Stade de France) because we had Tupou and Skelton. Before that, we had dominated the New Zealand scrum for the same reasons. Unfortunately, the Australian pool is not the French pool. These two players were not replaced by players with the same profile. If at least one of them had been present, I think we'd have beaten Fiji.
Two muscular injuries in the same week, on two different training sessions, is a very negative aspect of the preparation. Tupou and Skelton are heavy players. They need personalized physical preparation, and it's impossible to prepare them like the others. It was certainly badly managed, but that's easy to say afterwards. Skelton was our captain, the experienced player in the group, the one who had to balance out the youth. And Tupou is a force of nature. It's a shame.
With hindsight, how do you explain the humiliation suffered against Wales (40-6)?At half-time (16-6), I was convinced we were going to win that game. I thought we were in the game, that we were dominating this Welsh team physically. Unfortunately, I'm back to Australian education and Super Rugby: right at the start of the second half, we took a penalty that put us at -13. And the players let go. They're used to letting go.
In Top 14, there's the defensive bonus. You hang on to get back to within five points. That doesn't exist with them. They're not used to staying in the game. But 13 points is nothing! These players have a bad habit of giving up. It's unconscious. This state of mind has to change. And to do that, you have to be used to training harder, being under pressure and, tactically, having scenarios to play more often.
Eddie Jones crystallized all the criticism. How did you feel about it?
I found him very good within the group. He always gave the players and staff confidence, and was always positive when talking about improvement and work, even in the last week when we didn't have a match to play. Even with the coaches, many of whom came from XIII or Australian soccer, he was never critical of them. He supported them. I'm not saying he'll keep them, certainly he won't because he saw it wasn't working, it's not the same sport. But he's always been there. If Eddie stays, he'll make this Australian team a big one in 2027.
That's a big "if"...Yes, because it's going to depend on what they're able to put together. Eddie's a competitor. If he can't afford it, or if he feels it's going to go on as before, it'll be hard for him to stay. If he senses a real dynamic and a desire on the part of Australian rugby to create a high-performance environment, I think he'll be there.
Has the news that he's interviewed to become Japan's next coach disrupted the group?It didn't affect the group at all. Eddie, we know his relationship with Japan. His mother is Japanese and lives in Japan, as does his wife. He's a consultant or sports director at Suntory, one of Japan's biggest clubs, and has coached the national team. We know that the Japanese would really like to get Eddie Jones back in charge of the national team. But he's always been 100% committed to us. He works all the time, very early in the morning. He never gave up. He's always talked to the players about the future. It depends on what's going to happen. There's no time to lose. The French have had four years to build a group. They've been preparing for this World Cup for four years. Australia should take a leaf out of their book.
On a more personal note, how would you sum up this adventure?Nothing but positive things. I lived in Australia for five months, discovering a country and a culture. I had a wonderful time in Arnhem Land with the Aborigines. It's a protected area, you need permission to enter, it's forbidden to tourists. We spent two days among crocodiles and sharks. Eight-year-olds playing with snakes as if they were playing with a dog. Stories about aboriginal culture, a way of life... You're cut off from the world, you've got no signal. A unique experience.
And rugby, the Championship, matches in South Africa and New Zealand. A World Cup in France... Great times. In contact with Eddie, even if we didn't get any results, there were some very interesting things about the concept of training and group management. It makes me grow and gain more experience.What's next for you?
I'll be making a decision at the end of October, beginning of November. I've been offered a number of different things: going back to a club, a national team, continuing with Eddie Jones. I'll discuss it at home. So much the better, I'm not complaining, I have a choice."
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At half-time (16-6), I was convinced we were going to win that game. I thought we were in the game, that we were dominating this Welsh team physically. Unfortunately, I'm back to Australian education and Super Rugby: right at the start of the second half, we took a penalty that put us at -13. And the players let go. They're used to letting go.
In Top 14, there's the defensive bonus. You hang on to get back to within five points. That doesn't exist with them. They're not used to staying in the game. But 13 points is nothing! These players have a bad habit of giving up. It's unconscious. This state of mind has to change. And to do that, you have to be used to training harder, being under pressure and, tactically, having scenarios to play more often.This was a very telling observation. Very direct and not what we are used to hearing but see it happen.
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@ACT-Crusader huh... isn't there two losing bonus points available in super rugby?
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@Bones said in Aussie Rugby:
@ACT-Crusader huh... isn't there two losing bonus points available in super rugby?
Well not practically.
You can get one for losing within 7, but we haven't had the 4 try one for a few years.
Must score 3 tries more than your opponent to get the other BP.
And I think it only counts if you win. So you can't score 3 unconverted tries to your opponent's 6 penalty goals and get 2BPs.
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@NTA https://super.rugby/superrugby/about-super-rugby/tournament-format/
Sure about that? Even so, there's still the points for losing by 7 or less, so I'm confused why he would say championship has it over super rugby in that regard. Or have I got it arse about face?
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@ACT-Crusader said in Aussie Rugby:
At half-time (16-6), I was convinced we were going to win that game. I thought we were in the game, that we were dominating this Welsh team physically. Unfortunately, I'm back to Australian education and Super Rugby: right at the start of the second half, we took a penalty that put us at -13. And the players let go. They're used to letting go.
In Top 14, there's the defensive bonus. You hang on to get back to within five points. That doesn't exist with them. They're not used to staying in the game. But 13 points is nothing! These players have a bad habit of giving up. It's unconscious. This state of mind has to change. And to do that, you have to be used to training harder, being under pressure and, tactically, having scenarios to play more often.This was a very telling observation. Very direct and not what we are used to hearing but see it happen.
Deluded though IMHO
I was at the stadium watching it live from an excellent vantage point and after our early try I relaxed
I knew we had the match at that point
In the same way that I knew we were going to lose to Australia a couple of minutes before halftime last Autumn
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Aussie Rugby:
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby:
But then you have to ask: which dumb fluffybunny will line up for the job next?
You'd have to be as thick as mince to take that job on now.
In today's job market to get a contract like Eddie; huge salary, no apparent KPI, great travel, contract for 5 or more years, boss protecting you because his own job depends on it ... sounds rather good to me
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@nostrildamus said in Aussie Rugby:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Aussie Rugby:
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby:
But then you have to ask: which dumb fluffybunny will line up for the job next?
You'd have to be as thick as mince to take that job on now.
In today's job market to get a contract like Eddie; huge salary, no apparent KPI, great travel, contract for 5 or more years, boss protecting you because his own job depends on it ... sounds rather good to me
Yeah, see your point. Any old coach would do. Plus non-one would notice if you simply walked away if the pile of poo turned out to be worse than you thought...
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Aussie Rugby:
@nostrildamus said in Aussie Rugby:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Aussie Rugby:
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby:
But then you have to ask: which dumb fluffybunny will line up for the job next?
You'd have to be as thick as mince to take that job on now.
In today's job market to get a contract like Eddie; huge salary, no apparent KPI, great travel, contract for 5 or more years, boss protecting you because his own job depends on it ... sounds rather good to me
Yeah, see your point. Any old coach would do. Plus non-one would notice if you simply walked away if the pile of poo turned out to be worse than you thought...
I don't want to sound bitchy, but it would have to be a coach as evil as the left testicle of Satan or as incompetent as Frank Spencer Junior to drag the Wallabies any lower. Form gone, confidence gone, senior leaders booted, musical chairs captaincy, major confusion in key positions, board under a cloud...
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@nostrildamus that's it then. Foster to ARU, along with the bledisloe in 2024.
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@Bones said in Aussie Rugby:
@nostrildamus that's it then. Foster to ARU, along with the bledisloe in 2024.
are we that
cruelgenerous? Edit: I mean up to now we've only been sending them coaches who could win things.. -
Most of the local rugby aficionados here breathed a sigh of relief when he fucked off
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@nostrildamus said in Aussie Rugby:
@Bones said in Aussie Rugby:
@nostrildamus that's it then. Foster to ARU, along with the bledisloe in 2024.
are we that
cruelgenerous? Edit: I mean up to now we've only been sending them coaches who could win things..I don't know why they wouldn't want a coach fresh off the back of winning a world cup.
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@Daffy-Jaffy oof. I'm picking he'll love that.
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@Daffy-Jaffy said in Aussie Rugby:
In Super Rugby, you play a maximum of fifteen matches a year. There's very little continuity.
I so agree with this. And I am pretty anti how much 'rest' our guys get, although in some cases the NH is too far the other way. I will, once again, call for 5 Oz, 2 PI, 8ish NZ SR teams in SR. A full proper season, with the NPC gone, which will level the playing field, but still keep a lot of pro players in SH. With all teams at a similar level the comp will be better, and will grow together - see URC improvements. At that level we could safely reintroduce Arg and Japan.
Ireland do just fine with one pro layer, and so can we all in the SH. Ideally we would have SA as well, all 6 if they want, but that ship has sailed
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It echos what some of us were saying in the structure thread. Too little elite rugby for our players.
And too many easy games in that elite rugby.Our structure is totally cooked
