Black Caps in India
-
Next test I'd be hoping for something like:
- Latham
- Guptill/Nicholls (to be blunt, it doesn't matter much which one it is)
- Williamson, Williamson, Williamson
- Taylor
- Ronchi
- Neesham (is five days of fitness too much to ask?)
- Watling
- Santner
- Patel/Sodhi (I'm not convinced of a huge difference yet)
- Wagner
- Boult
And given how harsh that is on Henry, I'd be inspecting the pitch closely to see if Williamson and Guptil can combine as a second spinner - given John Wright's theory on not playing two spinners in India just for the sake of it.
Or maybe Ronchi opens, everyone else shuffles up, and Henry plays anyway at 8 ... his batting average isn't massively worse than Guptil or Nichols so far in his test career
-
@Rapido said in Black Caps in India:
204 and 197.
With the risk of offering an opinion without watching more than about 12 balls of the match. I reckon that very dodgy batting lineup over performed slightly. On paper that was a terrible team, not complaining about the actual selection either, but cicumstances conspired to combine a dodgy top 7 with a 4 man tail.
Fair point, that's not our top line up or even close, so it's not awful.
-
losing the toss in india is a big deal when it comes to the fourth innings.
their scores have been more than enough, so i wouldn't be congratulating our bowlers too much, especially given their tail wagging.
however, if you let a couple of pretty average indian seamers rip your batting apart over there, then that's where the blame starts. -
I actually rate Kumar, he was sharp as feck this test. Consistently over 140k, moving it both ways, changing his angles a lot. He comfortably outbowled our guys. Agree Mohammed Shami is shit. The pitches have been surprisingly good, something for everyone.
India's tail end batting is very solid at home where they play Jadaja & Ashwin bats higher up. They are stuffing us the same way they did Australia, score 300 & 250 with the tail wagging, roll the oppo for 250 & 200. Its a mile away from the old template which was score 600 & play for either the draw or an inning win.
-
@gollum yeah India's ability to put on 50 odd runs for the last couple of wickets has made a big difference in both tests. We've bowled ourselves into good positions but have been unable to finish them off without conceding runs.
With our long tail those have been runs we couldn't afford to give away.
-
It's not just this test, we've had a few where tail runs are the difference. our tail is shit, while others, particularly Australia, find ways to get another 50-60 runs out of the last 3. We suck at bowling to tail enders because we lack the pace to blast them out, or the spin to tie them in knots, or we mentally clock off at 8 down and start thinking about batting.
I'm not too disappointed in this tour so far, we've showed some good patches, in a place that's really fucking hard to win, with a team that's got a lot of "not quite good enough" players. I just really wanted a test win to shove it up Australia's nose again.
-
@mariner4life said in Black Caps in India:
It's not just this test, we've had a few where tail runs are the difference. our tail is shit, while others, particularly Australia, find ways to get another 50-60 runs out of the last 3. We suck at bowling to tail enders because we lack the pace to blast them out, or the spin to tie them in knots, or we mentally clock off at 8 down and start thinking about batting.
I'm not too disappointed in this tour so far, we've showed some good patches, in a place that's really fucking hard to win, with a team that's got a lot of "not quite good enough" players. I just really wanted a test win to shove it up Australia's nose again.
This is just wrong. We have had the best tail in test cricket since 2014. In the past year our tail has been relatively poor but Australia's has been the worst.. I can't work out how to provide a link to this but teams against us have scored 616 runs off of 33 tail end wickets at an average of 18.7. So on average other teams are scoring about 10 runs a game more with their tail than we are scoring with ours, in 2016.
It's easy to look at a team like India and marvel at their tail. The truth is, of course they have a good tail. In India you probably always want to pick two spinners. If you pick two good spinners then you should only need two quick bowling options. What India does is pick two good spinners. One of those spinners happens to be a good batsman, too. Therefore they can put their keeper at 8 which gives them a good tail. In the first test we picked 3 spinners because we didn't have a clue who our best two were. Plus Sodhi is a leggie and could go for plenty. We can't just pick our two best spinners and have them bowl all day (because they aren't good enough) so we had to pick three quicks in the 2nd test.
If India were playing in New Zealand then suddenly they need another bowling option because you can't just bowl Jadeja and Ashwin all day. Therefore they would drop Rahane and move Ashwin to 6, Saha to 7 and Jadeja to 8. All of a sudden they have an average tail.
The real problem with our team is that we have a few players who probably aren't up to it. Guptill we know isn't good enough. Ronchi we know isn't good enough but happens to be good in Asia so he'll do for one more test. Nicholls probably isn't good enough. Santner isn't good enough to bat at 6 for now. Latham is good enough but his record isn't quite as good as it seems. Ditto Watling. Taylor is more than good enough but not so good he can carry a line up. Williamson is good enough to carry a team but will fail or be injured from time to time.
The tail is very easy to fix. All we need to do is put Neesham at 6, Santner at 8. Then you have Henry at 9 who has a FC average of 24. Wagner and Boult are good enough. The real concerns are who we bring in to bat at 5 and whether Raval is actually any good.
-
@hydro11 well, fuck me. Stats aye?
Of course, if you change the search to v NZ only, suddenly every average goes up between 2 and 3.5 runs.
Mark Craig, and batting Neesham at 8 that time he got a hundred certainly ups that average. So it's a real pity Craig can't bowl for shit, because he would be very handy down the order.
Just shows how off anecdotal impressions can be i guess
-
@hydro11 said in Black Caps in India:
It's easy to look at a team like India and marvel at their tail. The truth is, of course they have a good tail. In India you probably always want to pick two spinners. If you pick two good spinners then you should only need two quick bowling options. What India does is pick two good spinners. One of those spinners happens to be a good batsman, too. Therefore they can put their keeper at 8 which gives them a good tail.
The tail is very easy to fix. All we need to do is put Neesham at 6, Santner at 8. Then you have Henry at 9 who has a FC average of 24. Wagner and Boult are good enough. The real concerns are who we bring in to bat at 5 and whether Raval is actually any good.
Yeah, outside India their tail is shit.
The problem with our tail (which has been terrible the last year), is it only looked good with Neesham (who will never be fit enough to play consistently & wont bat there ever again anyway) & Craig (who is only an option on rank turners), if you look at the 2014+ stats you ran, its Craig & Neesham padding those, the only ton & 3 / 6 50's.
Dropping Santner in at 8 would help hugely, but as you note, who bats 5. And where does the occasionally fit Anderson play
-
If I can interrupt for but a moment:
Waugh ton lifts NSW Metro to U17s title | cricket.com.au
A timely century from Austin Waugh set the tone for NSW Metro before a brilliant performance with…
Austin Waugh (son of Steve) racked up a century for NSW Metro U17 as they took the final against QLD (by 152 runs) in the final today. There is a highlights vid in the link above.
He bats 4. Can hit. No pressure
-
Did we do the Saffas hitting the 2nd biggest run chase of all time yesterday to stuff Australia?
SA vs AUS Cricket Scorecard, 3rd ODI at Durban, October 05, 2016
Get cricket scorecard of 3rd ODI, SA vs AUS, Australia tour of South Africa 2016/17 at Kingsmead, Durban dated October 05, 2016.
-
-
@gollum said in Black Caps in India:
Did we do the Saffas hitting the 2nd biggest run chase of all time yesterday to stuff Australia?
SA vs AUS Cricket Scorecard, 3rd ODI at Durban, October 05, 2016
Get cricket scorecard of 3rd ODI, SA vs AUS, Australia tour of South Africa 2016/17 at Kingsmead, Durban dated October 05, 2016.
Even better, don't they hold the proud record of giving up 8 of the 10 biggest chases ever?
-
@NTA said in Black Caps in India:
Would be at least 4 of the top 5?
Yeah - it's 4 of the top 4, 8 of the top 10.
I think my favourites were the 2007 series in NZ, when Aus kept posting giant scores, and we kept chasing them down.
Especially Hamilton, with Hayden's 181no... I believe he was taken straight to hospital for heat-stroke(?) (plus broken toe, apparently) after the innings - very probably assuming he'd won the game. I like to imagine his face when discovering it was all-for-nought. -
@NTA said in Black Caps in India:
If I can interrupt for but a moment:
Waugh ton lifts NSW Metro to U17s title | cricket.com.au
A timely century from Austin Waugh set the tone for NSW Metro before a brilliant performance with…
Austin Waugh (son of Steve) racked up a century for NSW Metro U17 as they took the final against QLD (by 152 runs) in the final today. There is a highlights vid in the link above.
He bats 4. Can hit. No pressure
Austin, son of Steve
Who knew Tugger was such a big WWE fan.
-
i'd be a bit wary of having a go at the aussies for losing despite posting massive scores - if pressed you could probably come up with a reason that hasn't happened to us too often... still, gotta make hay where we can in the cricket sledging... pack of fucking chokers when they score big eh, bad as the saffas in a knock-out game!
-
