All Blacks 2024
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
The doom on here is OTT. We nearly won the WC, nearly beat the generationally great SA side in SA, unearthed some tremendous new talent in Williams, Vaai, Sititi and Roigard, and had Whitelock/BBBR and A Smith retire.
Glass half full.Agreed
But I think what has your brethren worried is not learning from 'the learnings'
in that space on both sides of the ball
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
Agreed
But you're Welsh. We don't take moral victories from 'nearly winning'. Or at least most of us haven't accepted that level yet
We lost the RC, we couldn't beat SA, and we lost to Argentina. We found ways to lose games we should've won.
It's not good enough. The level of criticism for the AB side has been minimal. If things don't improve on the EOYT maybe we'll see some real pressure.
How many NZ players would make a World 15 currently
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
How many NZ players would make a World 15 currently
Not many because we keep
nearly winninglosingWin more games, get more players in a theoretical world xv
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We are improving albeit slowly and need some strong leaders coming through. There are green shoots.
We seriously need an attacking 7 -
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
Agreed
But you're Welsh. We don't take moral victories from 'nearly winning'. Or at least most of us haven't accepted that level yet
We lost the RC, we couldn't beat SA, and we lost to Argentina. We found ways to lose games we should've won.
It's not good enough. The level of criticism for the AB side has been minimal. If things don't improve on the EOYT maybe we'll see some real pressure.
It's got nothing to do with being Welsh
Both things can be valid at the same time
If you were 0-5, couldn't score tries and were being beaten by 3 scores every match and still picking the same players then that would be different
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
Agreed
But you're Welsh. We don't take moral victories from 'nearly winning'. Or at least most of us haven't accepted that level yet
We lost the RC, we couldn't beat SA, and we lost to Argentina. We found ways to lose games we should've won.
It's not good enough. The level of criticism for the AB side has been minimal. If things don't improve on the EOYT maybe we'll see some real pressure.
How many NZ players would make a World 15 currently
Realistically
Zero
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It's a comment on the lowering of standards. NZ fans/media have never been as forgiving as they are right now
Notice how many times summaries of the season just leave off the Argentina game? We shouldn't be losing to them in NZ and definitely should be conceding 38 points to them
Arrogant? Yes. But that pressure is what drove standards for decade after decade.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024:
It's a comment on the lowering of standards. NZ fans/media have never been as forgiving as they are right now
Notice how many times summaries of the season just leave off the Argentina game? We shouldn't be losing to them in NZ and definitely should be conceding 38 points to them
Arrogant? Yes. But that pressure is what drove standards for decade after decade.
Absolutely
The same thing is happening with the Labour Government in the UK
Those who supported it are so invested in it and so convinced that it's better that they can't accept the reality
The ABs are a ball hair from winning big matches against higher ranked opponents
They're missing key players in key positions and/or key players are not performing to their known best
They're blowing good leads and are unable to change tactics during a match if things are not working outAll those things can be (and IMHO are) true at the same time
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@MiketheSnow Will Jordan at 14. Tyrel Lomax at TH.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024:
Bit of an open question
say we have a passable EOYT, no real hidings, maybe lose one or two, win the rest....what will Razor have achieved this year?
Has it been the success we all dreamed of? Of course not, and Razor would tell you that. I think Razor would even admit to making a few mistakes, but this year has been fine margins.
If you look through the first year of most RWC cycles, as much as working out your new talent, it is also often about working out who isn't up to the task either... and I think we'd be surprised that they probably have developed some fairly strong opinions.
They've gone with the approach of working out which of the current guys can fit the system first, which is conservative, but it could yet be proven the right one. Easier to bring fresh talent into a side which knows what it is doing, then one trying to find its identity. If I was to guess, I think the coaches are probably well aware that there is loads of talent u23, so they want to ensure there is an established spine so that they can just drop these guys in - but doing it all at once is very risky.
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@Donsteppa said in All Blacks 2024:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024:
It's a comment on the lowering of standards. NZ fans/media have never been as forgiving as they are right now
The AB's are arguably lucky, but also weakened by, that drop-off in the wider care factor...
Yeah, short term everyone (players, coaches, administrators) are more secure in their jobs. Longer term I think it does damage
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@stodders said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow Will Jordan at 14. Tyrel Lomax at TH.
Possibly
It would depend on the make up of the front and back threes
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@MiketheSnow Lomax is nailed on for TH. He’s the only guy this season to get the better of Ox Nche (who is the premier world LH) and nails his core roles around the field and then some.
Jordan - you can’t leave him out. His strike rate is ludicrous. Toss up with Penaud or Arendse for me.
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
Agreed
But you're Welsh. We don't take moral victories from 'nearly winning'. Or at least most of us haven't accepted that level yet
We lost the RC, we couldn't beat SA, and we lost to Argentina. We found ways to lose games we should've won.
It's not good enough. The level of criticism for the AB side has been minimal. If things don't improve on the EOYT maybe we'll see some real pressure.
How many NZ players would make a World 15 currently
Realistically
Zero
Caleb Clarke and Will Jordan would be options.
Ardie Savea…..a few years ago
Beauden Barrett…..a few more years ago
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@stodders said in All Blacks 2024:
@MN5 Why do people always ignore the props
I didn't
There are some very good props up our way
Lomax will need to be firing on all cylinders to come away with his World XV place come December
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2024:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks 2024:
Agreed
But you're Welsh. We don't take moral victories from 'nearly winning'. Or at least most of us haven't accepted that level yet
We lost the RC, we couldn't beat SA, and we lost to Argentina. We found ways to lose games we should've won.
It's not good enough. The level of criticism for the AB side has been minimal. If things don't improve on the EOYT maybe we'll see some real pressure.
How many NZ players would make a World 15 currently
Realistically
Zero
Caleb Clarke and Will Jordan would be options.
Ardie Savea…..a few years ago
Beauden Barrett…..a few more years ago
Jordan possibly if he had the right centre inside him
We'll know soon enough
