TRC Squad
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@Mr-Fish Sorry but that's a nonsense argument if he's never even given a chance. As m4l says he has played well against big packs, I also remember he played well for the NZ Māori against the B&I lions as a youngster, his talent is undeniable. It appears the ABs are now overlooking him despite him realising that talent because certain coaches refuse to work with him. It's made all the more criminal given our loosies are by far our biggest weakness right now.
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@Machpants said in TRC Squad:
The serious shortcomings of the selection are now manifest.
A squad with Riccitelli, Akira, Christie and a form 12 would have provided TWM with genuine options in last three games.
Lol Ricky and Christie are nowhere near an improvement. Akira is going overseas, try again
Yep, if Aumua can't impact on a test what makes people think Riccitelli would be the answer?
We've all spent the last 2+ years moaning about Christie, and all of a sudden he is the answer? Jeepers.
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@No-Quarter said in TRC Squad:
The revisionism on Akira's time in black is getting really tiresome. "Tried and failed". Absolute horseshit, he's been snubbed because Ryan has an inexplicable dislike of him to the serious detriment of the ABs.
In 2021 Akira was absolutely dominant for the ABs, leading the overall MOTM poll on here for the entire season. He had one quiet game against SA after a long season, then the coaches began their love affair with Frizell who never put in even one single performance as good as Akira had on multiple occasions, and then went completely missing in the RWC final costing us dearly.
Akira got absolutely screwed by the AB selectors, and he has now left as a result of being constantly snubbed despite being the best 6 in the country by a long way for the past 3 years.
To back this up, here are the MOTM polls from 2021.
Plenty of votes here:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4772/all-blacks-motm-vs-aus-i
MOTM here:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4792/all-blacks-motm-vs-aus-ii?page=1
Backed up with another MOTM performance:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4824/all-blacks-motm-vs-aus-iii
Three in a row where he was MOTM or in the mix.
Can also add a game against Fiji where he got plenty of votes just for good measure:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4738/all-blacks-motm-v-fiji-2?page=1
And why not throw Tonga in there as well, got quite a few votes in that match as well:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4707/all-blacks-motm-v-tonga?page=1
And remember, this is just a snippet, he's had other MOTM performances before then, but 2021 was when he started putting it together on a consistent basis.
It's not just Ryan that seems to have an inexplicable dislike of him, some posters on here just refuse to accept, or remember, that he has been dominant for the ABs in the past. If he had consistent game time since his breakout season in 2021 our problems at 6 would be non-existent. Instead, Ryan and the other selectors have fucked his AB career by consistently selecting a far lesser player over him.
The same thing is going to happen with Sotutu. Can't get a look in despite being the best 8 in the country. I don't know why this doesn't piss people off more, the ABs are significantly weaker as a result of this shit.
Your argument would be a long stronger if he was MOTM against any of England, France, Ireland or South Africa...
Akira was really good against shit teams - no one can take that away from him. Was he any good against bigger opposition? The jury's out
The other issue with using fan MOTM polls, is fans are always going to favour the players from their NPC/Super teams, so naturally any Blues player is likely to be reflected better... I think you'd struggle to find a fan who isn't at least a fraction biased, and there isn't anything wrong with that either.
Don't rewrite history, Akira didn't nail the jersey or else he wouldn't have been dropped. It's bullshit that Frizell never put in a good performance, he fucked up the Boks at Mt Smart just before the World Cup, and was pretty bloody handy. He was hardly even bad in the final, the game just never flowed his way.
There is no lack of good young loose forwards in NZ, we just need to be patient for them to get time in the saddle.
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@Machpants said in TRC Squad:
The serious shortcomings of the selection are now manifest.
A squad with Riccitelli, Akira, Christie and a form 12 would have provided TWM with genuine options in last three games.
Lol Ricky and Christie are nowhere near an improvement. Akira is going overseas, try again
Yep, if Aumua can't impact on a test what makes people think Riccitelli would be the answer?
We've all spent the last 2+ years moaning about Christie, and all of a sudden he is the answer? Jeepers.
I think you’ve missed the context. Having Ricky means you can go with Aumua and Taylor content you’ve got injury cover, which is important travelling to SA. Bell may be the ‘answer’ but he’s no comfort if Codie were to have gone down.
Likewise, Roigard and Ratima are looking like 23 picks going forward, but for now Ratima is our best starter. Hotham is maybe the next ‘answer’, but I’d have much preferred a Ratima/Christie combo against the Boks with TJS injury cover.
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@No-Quarter said in TRC Squad:
The revisionism on Akira's time in black is getting really tiresome. "Tried and failed". Absolute horseshit, he's been snubbed because Ryan has an inexplicable dislike of him to the serious detriment of the ABs.
In 2021 Akira was absolutely dominant for the ABs, leading the overall MOTM poll on here for the entire season. He had one quiet game against SA after a long season, then the coaches began their love affair with Frizell who never put in even one single performance as good as Akira had on multiple occasions, and then went completely missing in the RWC final costing us dearly.
Akira got absolutely screwed by the AB selectors, and he has now left as a result of being constantly snubbed despite being the best 6 in the country by a long way for the past 3 years.
To back this up, here are the MOTM polls from 2021.
Plenty of votes here:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4772/all-blacks-motm-vs-aus-i
MOTM here:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4792/all-blacks-motm-vs-aus-ii?page=1
Backed up with another MOTM performance:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4824/all-blacks-motm-vs-aus-iii
Three in a row where he was MOTM or in the mix.
Can also add a game against Fiji where he got plenty of votes just for good measure:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4738/all-blacks-motm-v-fiji-2?page=1
And why not throw Tonga in there as well, got quite a few votes in that match as well:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4707/all-blacks-motm-v-tonga?page=1
And remember, this is just a snippet, he's had other MOTM performances before then, but 2021 was when he started putting it together on a consistent basis.
It's not just Ryan that seems to have an inexplicable dislike of him, some posters on here just refuse to accept, or remember, that he has been dominant for the ABs in the past. If he had consistent game time since his breakout season in 2021 our problems at 6 would be non-existent. Instead, Ryan and the other selectors have fucked his AB career by consistently selecting a far lesser player over him.
The same thing is going to happen with Sotutu. Can't get a look in despite being the best 8 in the country. I don't know why this doesn't piss people off more, the ABs are significantly weaker as a result of this shit.
Your argument would be a long stronger if he was MOTM against any of England, France, Ireland or South Africa...
Akira was really good against shit teams - no one can take that away from him. Was he any good against bigger opposition? The jury's out
The other issue with using fan MOTM polls, is fans are always going to favour the players from their NPC/Super teams, so naturally any Blues player is likely to be reflected better... I think you'd struggle to find a fan who isn't at least a fraction biased, and there isn't anything wrong with that either.
Don't rewrite history, Akira didn't nail the jersey or else he wouldn't have been dropped. It's bullshit that Frizell never put in a good performance, he fucked up the Boks at Mt Smart just before the World Cup, and was pretty bloody handy. He was hardly even bad in the final, the game just never flowed his way.
There is no lack of good young loose forwards in NZ, we just need to be patient for them to get time in the saddle.
That Akira couldn’t fit AB pattern says a lot about the coaches. Under Stern he became a lot tighter and was a key cog in the Blues Pack which muntered the other Super sides.
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@No-Quarter said in TRC Squad:
The revisionism on Akira's time in black is getting really tiresome. "Tried and failed". Absolute horseshit, he's been snubbed because Ryan has an inexplicable dislike of him to the serious detriment of the ABs.
In 2021 Akira was absolutely dominant for the ABs, leading the overall MOTM poll on here for the entire season. He had one quiet game against SA after a long season, then the coaches began their love affair with Frizell who never put in even one single performance as good as Akira had on multiple occasions, and then went completely missing in the RWC final costing us dearly.
Akira got absolutely screwed by the AB selectors, and he has now left as a result of being constantly snubbed despite being the best 6 in the country by a long way for the past 3 years.
To back this up, here are the MOTM polls from 2021.
Plenty of votes here:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4772/all-blacks-motm-vs-aus-i
MOTM here:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4792/all-blacks-motm-vs-aus-ii?page=1
Backed up with another MOTM performance:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4824/all-blacks-motm-vs-aus-iii
Three in a row where he was MOTM or in the mix.
Can also add a game against Fiji where he got plenty of votes just for good measure:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4738/all-blacks-motm-v-fiji-2?page=1
And why not throw Tonga in there as well, got quite a few votes in that match as well:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4707/all-blacks-motm-v-tonga?page=1
And remember, this is just a snippet, he's had other MOTM performances before then, but 2021 was when he started putting it together on a consistent basis.
It's not just Ryan that seems to have an inexplicable dislike of him, some posters on here just refuse to accept, or remember, that he has been dominant for the ABs in the past. If he had consistent game time since his breakout season in 2021 our problems at 6 would be non-existent. Instead, Ryan and the other selectors have fucked his AB career by consistently selecting a far lesser player over him.
The same thing is going to happen with Sotutu. Can't get a look in despite being the best 8 in the country. I don't know why this doesn't piss people off more, the ABs are significantly weaker as a result of this shit.
Your argument would be a long stronger if he was MOTM against any of England, France, Ireland or South Africa...
Akira was really good against shit teams - no one can take that away from him. Was he any good against bigger opposition? The jury's out
The other issue with using fan MOTM polls, is fans are always going to favour the players from their NPC/Super teams, so naturally any Blues player is likely to be reflected better... I think you'd struggle to find a fan who isn't at least a fraction biased, and there isn't anything wrong with that either.
Don't rewrite history, Akira didn't nail the jersey or else he wouldn't have been dropped. It's bullshit that Frizell never put in a good performance, he fucked up the Boks at Mt Smart just before the World Cup, and was pretty bloody handy. He was hardly even bad in the final, the game just never flowed his way.
There is no lack of good young loose forwards in NZ, we just need to be patient for them to get time in the saddle.
That Akira couldn’t fit AB pattern says a lot about the coaches. Under Stern he became a lot tighter and was a key cog in the Blues Pack which muntered the other Siper sides.
Akira Ioane's form in Super Rugby has never really been an issue. Just like Samipeni Finau dominated for the Chiefs. Test rugby is a different beast (against the top few nations).
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@No-Quarter said in TRC Squad:
The revisionism on Akira's time in black is getting really tiresome. "Tried and failed". Absolute horseshit, he's been snubbed because Ryan has an inexplicable dislike of him to the serious detriment of the ABs.
In 2021 Akira was absolutely dominant for the ABs, leading the overall MOTM poll on here for the entire season. He had one quiet game against SA after a long season, then the coaches began their love affair with Frizell who never put in even one single performance as good as Akira had on multiple occasions, and then went completely missing in the RWC final costing us dearly.
Akira got absolutely screwed by the AB selectors, and he has now left as a result of being constantly snubbed despite being the best 6 in the country by a long way for the past 3 years.
To back this up, here are the MOTM polls from 2021.
Plenty of votes here:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4772/all-blacks-motm-vs-aus-i
MOTM here:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4792/all-blacks-motm-vs-aus-ii?page=1
Backed up with another MOTM performance:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4824/all-blacks-motm-vs-aus-iii
Three in a row where he was MOTM or in the mix.
Can also add a game against Fiji where he got plenty of votes just for good measure:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4738/all-blacks-motm-v-fiji-2?page=1
And why not throw Tonga in there as well, got quite a few votes in that match as well:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4707/all-blacks-motm-v-tonga?page=1
And remember, this is just a snippet, he's had other MOTM performances before then, but 2021 was when he started putting it together on a consistent basis.
It's not just Ryan that seems to have an inexplicable dislike of him, some posters on here just refuse to accept, or remember, that he has been dominant for the ABs in the past. If he had consistent game time since his breakout season in 2021 our problems at 6 would be non-existent. Instead, Ryan and the other selectors have fucked his AB career by consistently selecting a far lesser player over him.
The same thing is going to happen with Sotutu. Can't get a look in despite being the best 8 in the country. I don't know why this doesn't piss people off more, the ABs are significantly weaker as a result of this shit.
Your argument would be a long stronger if he was MOTM against any of England, France, Ireland or South Africa...
Akira was really good against shit teams - no one can take that away from him. Was he any good against bigger opposition? The jury's out
The other issue with using fan MOTM polls, is fans are always going to favour the players from their NPC/Super teams, so naturally any Blues player is likely to be reflected better... I think you'd struggle to find a fan who isn't at least a fraction biased, and there isn't anything wrong with that either.
Don't rewrite history, Akira didn't nail the jersey or else he wouldn't have been dropped. It's bullshit that Frizell never put in a good performance, he fucked up the Boks at Mt Smart just before the World Cup, and was pretty bloody handy. He was hardly even bad in the final, the game just never flowed his way.
There is no lack of good young loose forwards in NZ, we just need to be patient for them to get time in the saddle.
That Akira couldn’t fit AB pattern says a lot about the coaches. Under Stern he became a lot tighter and was a key cog in the Blues Pack which muntered the other Siper sides.
Akira Ioane's form in Super Rugby has never really been an issue. Just like Samipeni Finau dominated for the Chiefs. Test rugby is a different beast (against the top few nations).
Did he? Not so sure the Chiefs fans on here would even be 100% behind that - he can do a few things well that we need such as hit people hard and move bodies. However, even for the Chiefs he faded in and out a bit, which was the concern about his selection.
Like most 6s, he needs time to develop. Since Kaino, we've been looking for anothre ready made Kaino, rather than realizing that he took 3 - 4 years to grow into being quality, and even then only really hit it after continued selection for a couple of years.
Luatau and Ioane are both examples of players not quite given the room to grow. I hope Finau won't be the next.
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@No-Quarter said in TRC Squad:
The revisionism on Akira's time in black is getting really tiresome. "Tried and failed". Absolute horseshit, he's been snubbed because Ryan has an inexplicable dislike of him to the serious detriment of the ABs.
In 2021 Akira was absolutely dominant for the ABs, leading the overall MOTM poll on here for the entire season. He had one quiet game against SA after a long season, then the coaches began their love affair with Frizell who never put in even one single performance as good as Akira had on multiple occasions, and then went completely missing in the RWC final costing us dearly.
Akira got absolutely screwed by the AB selectors, and he has now left as a result of being constantly snubbed despite being the best 6 in the country by a long way for the past 3 years.
To back this up, here are the MOTM polls from 2021.
Plenty of votes here:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4772/all-blacks-motm-vs-aus-i
MOTM here:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4792/all-blacks-motm-vs-aus-ii?page=1
Backed up with another MOTM performance:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4824/all-blacks-motm-vs-aus-iii
Three in a row where he was MOTM or in the mix.
Can also add a game against Fiji where he got plenty of votes just for good measure:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4738/all-blacks-motm-v-fiji-2?page=1
And why not throw Tonga in there as well, got quite a few votes in that match as well:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4707/all-blacks-motm-v-tonga?page=1
And remember, this is just a snippet, he's had other MOTM performances before then, but 2021 was when he started putting it together on a consistent basis.
It's not just Ryan that seems to have an inexplicable dislike of him, some posters on here just refuse to accept, or remember, that he has been dominant for the ABs in the past. If he had consistent game time since his breakout season in 2021 our problems at 6 would be non-existent. Instead, Ryan and the other selectors have fucked his AB career by consistently selecting a far lesser player over him.
The same thing is going to happen with Sotutu. Can't get a look in despite being the best 8 in the country. I don't know why this doesn't piss people off more, the ABs are significantly weaker as a result of this shit.
Your argument would be a long stronger if he was MOTM against any of England, France, Ireland or South Africa...
Akira was really good against shit teams - no one can take that away from him. Was he any good against bigger opposition? The jury's out
The other issue with using fan MOTM polls, is fans are always going to favour the players from their NPC/Super teams, so naturally any Blues player is likely to be reflected better... I think you'd struggle to find a fan who isn't at least a fraction biased, and there isn't anything wrong with that either.
Don't rewrite history, Akira didn't nail the jersey or else he wouldn't have been dropped. It's bullshit that Frizell never put in a good performance, he fucked up the Boks at Mt Smart just before the World Cup, and was pretty bloody handy. He was hardly even bad in the final, the game just never flowed his way.
There is no lack of good young loose forwards in NZ, we just need to be patient for them to get time in the saddle.
That Akira couldn’t fit AB pattern says a lot about the coaches. Under Stern he became a lot tighter and was a key cog in the Blues Pack which muntered the other Siper sides.
Akira Ioane's form in Super Rugby has never really been an issue. Just like Samipeni Finau dominated for the Chiefs. Test rugby is a different beast (against the top few nations).
Luatau and Ioane are both examples of players not quite given the room to grow. I hope Finau won't be the next.
I've heard it all now.
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@No-Quarter said in TRC Squad:
@Mr-Fish Sorry but that's a nonsense argument if he's never even given a chance. As m4l says he has played well against big packs, I also remember he played well for the NZ Māori against the B&I lions as a youngster, his talent is undeniable. It appears the ABs are now overlooking him despite him realising that talent because certain coaches refuse to work with him. It's made all the more criminal given our loosies are by far our biggest weakness right now.
Ioane played seven games over two years against SA, Ireland France (including five starts). How many MOTM polls did he come out on top in in this matches?
He never reached great heights for the All Blacks and never proved himself capable of footing it with the better sides. Standing out against Australia is fine and well but plenty of NZ loose forwards have looked good against Australia in the past.
All that being said, I would've still picked him in the All Blacks this year if he hadn't signed to go overseas. Players can obviously get better over time and I think Ioane deserved another shot under a new coach. But let's not rewrite history and pretend Ioane had clearly established himself as a top blindside flanker at international level when that was simply not the case.
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Ioane played really well in the third Ireland test in 2022
When Frizell got back into the ABs in 2022 around the South Africa tests he'd played about the same amount of tests that Ioane has now. Frizell had never played games as good as Ioane had by that stage. If Ioane was bought into the test team this year it would be equivalent to him getting the chance that Frizell did in mid 2022 test season
Also Australia were a lot better team in 2021. They beat SA twice that year.
Ioane also played really well in the 2nd test against Argentina in 2020 when he was bought into the side after the loss in the first test.
Overall he has played better than Frizell had when Frizell got given a second chance.
Some players just mature later but we seem to have a habit of squandering 6 talent before it has a chance to develop.
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Just to be clear, I don't think Frizell was a great No 6 either. Neither player proved themselves consistently strong against top-level opposition.
The guy who's actually never been given a proper run of games is Luke Jacobson (and I'm not suggesting he's the answer by any stretch, just pointing out a fact). Ironically he's the one who's still in the squad now...
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@No-Quarter said in TRC Squad:
The revisionism on Akira's time in black is getting really tiresome. "Tried and failed". Absolute horseshit, he's been snubbed because Ryan has an inexplicable dislike of him to the serious detriment of the ABs.
In 2021 Akira was absolutely dominant for the ABs, leading the overall MOTM poll on here for the entire season. He had one quiet game against SA after a long season, then the coaches began their love affair with Frizell who never put in even one single performance as good as Akira had on multiple occasions, and then went completely missing in the RWC final costing us dearly.
Akira got absolutely screwed by the AB selectors, and he has now left as a result of being constantly snubbed despite being the best 6 in the country by a long way for the past 3 years.
To back this up, here are the MOTM polls from 2021.
Plenty of votes here:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4772/all-blacks-motm-vs-aus-i
MOTM here:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4792/all-blacks-motm-vs-aus-ii?page=1
Backed up with another MOTM performance:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4824/all-blacks-motm-vs-aus-iii
Three in a row where he was MOTM or in the mix.
Can also add a game against Fiji where he got plenty of votes just for good measure:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4738/all-blacks-motm-v-fiji-2?page=1
And why not throw Tonga in there as well, got quite a few votes in that match as well:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4707/all-blacks-motm-v-tonga?page=1
And remember, this is just a snippet, he's had other MOTM performances before then, but 2021 was when he started putting it together on a consistent basis.
It's not just Ryan that seems to have an inexplicable dislike of him, some posters on here just refuse to accept, or remember, that he has been dominant for the ABs in the past. If he had consistent game time since his breakout season in 2021 our problems at 6 would be non-existent. Instead, Ryan and the other selectors have fucked his AB career by consistently selecting a far lesser player over him.
The same thing is going to happen with Sotutu. Can't get a look in despite being the best 8 in the country. I don't know why this doesn't piss people off more, the ABs are significantly weaker as a result of this shit.
Your argument would be a long stronger if he was MOTM against any of England, France, Ireland or South Africa...
Akira was really good against shit teams - no one can take that away from him. Was he any good against bigger opposition? The jury's out
The other issue with using fan MOTM polls, is fans are always going to favour the players from their NPC/Super teams, so naturally any Blues player is likely to be reflected better... I think you'd struggle to find a fan who isn't at least a fraction biased, and there isn't anything wrong with that either.
Don't rewrite history, Akira didn't nail the jersey or else he wouldn't have been dropped. It's bullshit that Frizell never put in a good performance, he fucked up the Boks at Mt Smart just before the World Cup, and was pretty bloody handy. He was hardly even bad in the final, the game just never flowed his way.
There is no lack of good young loose forwards in NZ, we just need to be patient for them to get time in the saddle.
That Akira couldn’t fit AB pattern says a lot about the coaches. Under Stern he became a lot tighter and was a key cog in the Blues Pack which muntered the other Siper sides.
Akira Ioane's form in Super Rugby has never really been an issue. Just like Samipeni Finau dominated for the Chiefs. Test rugby is a different beast (against the top few nations).
Luatau and Ioane are both examples of players not quite given the room to grow. I hope Finau won't be the next.
I've heard it all now.
Ok, so you're obviously clueless. Noted.
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Pretty funny using the fact that Akira is going overseas to not pick him, as if he doesn’t have an out clause if he got selected. Even funnier when you consider all the overseas crusaders they are luring back.
Are they common?
Genuinely have no idea but can't think of any instances of a player announcing they're going overseas then staying in NZ? Though obviously most players are on the outer when they head offshore (or have called time on their international careers) so it's unlikely to happen often even if were possible.
