All Blacks vs Wallabies 2

@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

Fact is the ABs don't really have the cattle. There is not one player not selected this week that makes a considerable difference to this team. There is no silver bullet.

The real assessment of this team is at the end of next year, where if Razor is still showing 'Crusader bias' and the results aren't there, he'll come in for criticism.

Not in the squad, no. But there are several players that would improve things.

Nawera for Reece or Telea.
Sotutu
Any back for Havilli (I’d look at Lam)
Akira or Suafoa for Blackadder or Jacobson
Plummer to actually be used

And that’s just the tip of my head.

Loosies are a huge problem. Picking too many sevens, and players either out of form or not good enough.

I don't entirely disagree with most of that, but I am not convinced that those players improve things.

I would pay that potentially Sotutu could be a good impact sub, but lets not forget he has been tried and failed by the All Blacks before.

Glad you weren't selecting when Nonu or Kaino were around.

I've literally said I'd pick Sotutu. More just pointing out that there is no guarantee he is a success like some people think he would be.

just so i am clear, your argument is, that while the current guys suck, we shouldn't drop them because the replacements might suck too?

No, my argument is that we could change them, but I don't think it will really make a difference, so I am fairly indifferent to it.

I think a lot of people think that by picking other players it will improve the All Blacks performance, but I honestly think last week's team as pretty close to the best 23 players in the country.

Certainly 7 out of 8 of that pack are. Cane v Papalii v Whoever else is negligible. Take out Reece for whoever you like, and I think most would say that is the best backline.

Aumua would miss out to Samasoni if fit, Tosi v Newell is negligible, Darry v Tuipulotu is negligible, Perenara would miss out to Roigard if fit, Beauden would be in for Plummer as an impact sub.

In other words, the only place where you could potentially change things and see real change would be the loose forwards.

Snowy

@dogmeat said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

Time for a 1974 style clean-out (15 debutants in a squad of 25)

We need a Cavaliers tour to Russia.

I'm intrigued as to whether we are going to learn anything new from this team. I would suggest not. It is quite possible that we will be shit a the beginning and finish well, as opposed to the other way around though.

gt12

@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

Fact is the ABs don't really have the cattle. There is not one player not selected this week that makes a considerable difference to this team. There is no silver bullet.

The real assessment of this team is at the end of next year, where if Razor is still showing 'Crusader bias' and the results aren't there, he'll come in for criticism.

Not in the squad, no. But there are several players that would improve things.

Nawera for Reece or Telea.
Sotutu
Any back for Havilli (I’d look at Lam)
Akira or Suafoa for Blackadder or Jacobson
Plummer to actually be used

And that’s just the tip of my head.

Loosies are a huge problem. Picking too many sevens, and players either out of form or not good enough.

I don't entirely disagree with most of that, but I am not convinced that those players improve things.

I would pay that potentially Sotutu could be a good impact sub, but lets not forget he has been tried and failed by the All Blacks before.

Glad you weren't selecting when Nonu or Kaino were around.

I've literally said I'd pick Sotutu. More just pointing out that there is no guarantee he is a success like some people think he would be.

just so i am clear, your argument is, that while the current guys suck, we shouldn't drop them because the replacements might suck too?

No, my argument is that we could change them, but I don't think it will really make a difference, so I am fairly indifferent to it.

I think a lot of people think that by picking other players it will improve the All Blacks performance, but I honestly think last week's team as pretty close to the best 23 players in the country.

Certainly 7 out of 8 of that pack are. Cane v Papalii v Whoever else is negligible. Take out Reece for whoever you like, and I think most would say that is the best backline.

Aumua would miss out to Samasoni if fit, Tosi v Newell is negligible, Darry v Tuipulotu is negligible, Perenara would miss out to Roigard if fit, Beauden would be in for Plummer as an impact sub.

In other words, the only place where you could potentially change things and see real change would be the loose forwards.

OK.

canefan

@Nevorian said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

All I will say is, thanks to terrible squad selections and Crusader bias, the 23 we are putting out this year is nowhere near as strong as it could be

Agree Havili shouldn’t be there but isn’t there more of a Chiefs bias in that 23?

Bias only applies if the players concerned get picked but don't deserve their spot....

canefan

@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

@frugby said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

Fact is the ABs don't really have the cattle. There is not one player not selected this week that makes a considerable difference to this team. There is no silver bullet.

The real assessment of this team is at the end of next year, where if Razor is still showing 'Crusader bias' and the results aren't there, he'll come in for criticism.

Not in the squad, no. But there are several players that would improve things.

Nawera for Reece or Telea.
Sotutu
Any back for Havilli (I’d look at Lam)
Akira or Suafoa for Blackadder or Jacobson
Plummer to actually be used

And that’s just the tip of my head.

Loosies are a huge problem. Picking too many sevens, and players either out of form or not good enough.

I don't entirely disagree with most of that, but I am not convinced that those players improve things.

I would pay that potentially Sotutu could be a good impact sub, but lets not forget he has been tried and failed by the All Blacks before.

Glad you weren't selecting when Nonu or Kaino were around.

I've literally said I'd pick Sotutu. More just pointing out that there is no guarantee he is a success like some people think he would be.

just so i am clear, your argument is, that while the current guys suck, we shouldn't drop them because the replacements might suck too?

No, my argument is that we could change them, but I don't think it will really make a difference, so I am fairly indifferent to it.

I think a lot of people think that by picking other players it will improve the All Blacks performance, but I honestly think last week's team as pretty close to the best 23 players in the country.

Certainly 7 out of 8 of that pack are. Cane v Papalii v Whoever else is negligible. Take out Reece for whoever you like, and I think most would say that is the best backline.

Aumua would miss out to Samasoni if fit, Tosi v Newell is negligible, Darry v Tuipulotu is negligible, Perenara would miss out to Roigard if fit, Beauden would be in for Plummer as an impact sub.

In other words, the only place where you could potentially change things and see real change would be the loose forwards.

OK.

That's one of my favourite gifs. Nice to have a little joy on this thread for one moment at least

nostrildamus

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

Fucking BB at 10 and TJ at 9. What is this 2014?

Should be DMac at 9 and TJP at 10 to really troll people

The halfback passing might improve!

canefan

@Snowy said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

@dogmeat said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

Time for a 1974 style clean-out (15 debutants in a squad of 25)

We need a Cavaliers tour to Russia.

I'm intrigued as to whether we are going to learn anything new from this team. I would suggest not. It is quite possible that we will be shit a the beginning and finish well, as opposed to the other way around though.

Learn nothing. Nada. Except perhaps more evidence that Razor is not the droid we're looking for

nostrildamus

I have a feeling DH will play so well off the bench they take him and play him at 12 on the EOYT...grrr.

BerniesCorner

Having minimal backup Ist five cover after DMac for the rest of the year is a risk.

nzzp

@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

Having minimal backup Ist five cover after DMac for the rest of the year is a risk.

I'd have kept DMac on. He's your future 10, he's playing bloody well (mostly) - and BB is a dead end.

What the hell kind of message are you sending to him by dropping him? Do you think he'll suddenly play better? You want him creating chaos and throwing those passes, not going to ground with the ball.

BerniesCorner

Yep this match is kinda a send off. Not the ruthless selectorial process we have seen historically.
They should've trusted the young fullas more this year and given game time.

antipodean

@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

Yep this match is kinda a send off. Not the ruthless selectorial process we have seen historically.
They should've trusted the young fullas more this year and given game time.

I can't imagine Fred Allen giving players a send off other than "you're bloody useless" if they asked why they weren't selected.

Nepia

@dogmeat said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:

@Kiwiwomble

No time for sentimentality when our form is bad, so;

Cane
Perenara
Reece
Aumua
Jacobsen
Havili
Barrett B

Now saying I'd be happy not seeing them in Black again isn't quite the same as advocating none of them should play this weekend. That would be too disruptive, but I wouldn't be taking any of them to the NH. They're either past it or haven't got it. Patrick T fits those criteria too in an ideal world.

You must have some time for sentimentality - otherwise how is Ardie not on your list?

The Silver Fern

All Blacks vs Wallabies 2