All Blacks vs Wallabies I
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@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
I have a strong preference for Plummer as the back-up 10 ahead of Barrett.
Having said that, there is no way I would be starting Plummer in any game soon, because McKenzie and our back combinations are not settled in to anywhere near an adequate standard yet: if you haven't got your A team sorted out what's the point in working on your B team?I broadly agree with your point that our first choice need to develop together, but at some point we need a look at the other squad members just in case they're a legitimately better option.
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
If we win the first test against the Wallabies in Sydney I'd love this backline to get a run in Wellington.
- Ratima 10. Plummer 11. Clarke 12. Barrett 13. Proctor 14. Jordan 15. Love.
I don't think Jordie has been that well that he's locked in. ALB might be worth a look as a starter, certainly has a better passing game.
Best combination IMO would be ALB and RI.
The best combo we've seen this year (albeit against Fiji) was ALB and Proctor. Surely they deserve another crack together.
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i think we need to get over the idea of the bench just being the second best players
in some game at least the staring team just needs to be cohesive, make their tackles, kick goals, play for territory...it doesnt need to be razzle dazzle
pick combinations of players that know each other to start....and then have some game breakers on the bench, people like DMac and Savea can really change game or put one to bed in the final 20-30min
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
i think we need to get over the idea of the bench just being the second best players
in some game at least the staring team just needs to be cohesive, make their tackles, kick goals, play for territory...it doesnt need to be razzle dazzle
pick combinations of players that know each other to start....and then have some game breakers on the bench, people like DMac and Savea can really change game or put one to bed in the final 20-30min
We should be picking a bench with x-factor. Maybe something along the lines of.
- Aumua 17. Numia 18. Tosi 19. Walker-Leawere 20. Lakai 21. Perenara 22. J Barrett 23. Naholo
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Gunner said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
This talk of sacking Razor is madness.
Yep we’ve lost too many games for anyones liking, however i can see clear improvement in tactics and the way we’re playing.
He’s slowly but surely bringing in fresh talent, though I’d like him to be a bit more ruthless with some of the underperforming senior players.
Boks are a good side, with the majority having been together for years, know how to win (much like our 2011-2015 ABs teams.
It’s not all doom and gloom, if we’re still making the same mistakes and losing close games in another 12 months then it’ll need a re-think.
Well it's clearly in the context of the last few years where there were constant calls to sack Fozzie even after he managed to not lose a RC at all.
The posters who were ready to string him up can't complain now when the same standards are being applied to the Messiah.
I'm not sure I'm seeing this "clear" improvement you can see.
(This is not me saying he should be sacked, just pointing out that in the context of the Fern over the last few years it's not as "madness" as you may think).
Foster had greater players and worse tactics against weaker teams.
And years not months.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
i think we need to get over the idea of the bench just being the second best players
in some game at least the staring team just needs to be cohesive, make their tackles, kick goals, play for territory...it doesnt need to be razzle dazzle
pick combinations of players that know each other to start....and then have some game breakers on the bench, people like DMac and Savea can really change game or put one to bed in the final 20-30min
We should be picking a bench with x-factor. Maybe something along the lines of.
- Aumua 17. Numia 18. Tosi 19. Walker-Leawere 20. Lakai 21. Perenara 22. J Barrett 23. Naholo
your in wrong thread
we are picking all Blacks bench not the hurricames
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I don't want them to ring the changes at all, especially in the backs. We need Ratima-DMac-Jordie-Rieko getting as much game time together as they can. Making them play SA in SA and then dropping them for the Wallabies is 1) not fair to them at all (people are still referencing the Fiji game as if that meant anything at all) and 2) doesn't give them a chance to build combinations against easier opposition.
Guys like Proctor and Plummer can all ride the pine and get minutes off the bench to get them some experience playing in black.
On the back three, it's pretty clear now there's a big gap on the wings between Clarke/Jordan and the rest, so we have to hope like hell those two are fit against the better teams. Reece and Telea are adequate backups but don't provide anywhere near the same threat.
The only position that I see as wide open is the 15 jumper. Beauden's experience counts for a lot, but he's been too inconsistent this season. The injury to Perofeta was a shame as he was looking very good there, so I'd like to see him given another go first. If he struggles, then Love would be the next cab off the rank.
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@Canes4life Aumua, Numia, Williams, Sotutu, Lakai, Roigard, Sullivan
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@ploughboy said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
i think we need to get over the idea of the bench just being the second best players
in some game at least the staring team just needs to be cohesive, make their tackles, kick goals, play for territory...it doesnt need to be razzle dazzle
pick combinations of players that know each other to start....and then have some game breakers on the bench, people like DMac and Savea can really change game or put one to bed in the final 20-30min
We should be picking a bench with x-factor. Maybe something along the lines of.
- Aumua 17. Numia 18. Tosi 19. Walker-Leawere 20. Lakai 21. Perenara 22. J Barrett 23. Naholo
your in wrong thread
we are picking all Blacks bench not the hurricames
It was an obvious piss take mate.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@ploughboy said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
i think we need to get over the idea of the bench just being the second best players
in some game at least the staring team just needs to be cohesive, make their tackles, kick goals, play for territory...it doesnt need to be razzle dazzle
pick combinations of players that know each other to start....and then have some game breakers on the bench, people like DMac and Savea can really change game or put one to bed in the final 20-30min
We should be picking a bench with x-factor. Maybe something along the lines of.
- Aumua 17. Numia 18. Tosi 19. Walker-Leawere 20. Lakai 21. Perenara 22. J Barrett 23. Naholo
your in wrong thread
we are picking all Blacks bench not the hurricames
It was an obvious piss take mate.
i ligit was half way through flaming you before i clicked.....delete delete delete
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F*** the minnows shit, I not reading too much in Wallabies game on weekend, as I thought up to halftime they looked best I have seen them this year. Anyway, first game against them and in Aus, how about we just try and bury the pricks? Play cutsies whan we got Bledisloe wrapped up. I like the idea of Proctor at 13, but can understand if they leave it until Wellington. Forwards I'm happy to see axactly the same. backs I don't see many changes, though I have said and always do, personally for me I would have Jordan at 14, but suspect he will be at 15 again. Plummer ain't going to start, or probably be on bench.
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@No-Quarter Perofeta isn't with team even, he was at Yarrow park on Sunday.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@ploughboy said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
i think we need to get over the idea of the bench just being the second best players
in some game at least the staring team just needs to be cohesive, make their tackles, kick goals, play for territory...it doesnt need to be razzle dazzle
pick combinations of players that know each other to start....and then have some game breakers on the bench, people like DMac and Savea can really change game or put one to bed in the final 20-30min
We should be picking a bench with x-factor. Maybe something along the lines of.
- Aumua 17. Numia 18. Tosi 19. Walker-Leawere 20. Lakai 21. Perenara 22. J Barrett 23. Naholo
your in wrong thread
we are picking all Blacks bench not the hurricames
It was an obvious piss take mate.
as was my reply
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
I don't want them to ring the changes at all, especially in the backs. We need Ratima-DMac-Jordie-Rieko getting as much game time together as they can. Making them play SA in SA and then dropping them for the Wallabies is 1) not fair to them at all (people are still referencing the Fiji game as if that meant anything at all) and 2) doesn't give them a chance to build combinations against easier opposition.
Guys like Proctor and Plummer can all ride the pine and get minutes off the bench to get them some experience playing in black.
On the back three, it's pretty clear now there's a big gap on the wings between Clarke/Jordan and the rest, so we have to hope like hell those two are fit against the better teams. Reece and Telea are adequate backups but don't provide anywhere near the same threat.
The only position that I see as wide open is the 15 jumper. Beauden's experience counts for a lot, but he's been too inconsistent this season. The injury to Perofeta was a shame as he was looking very good there, so I'd like to see him given another go first. If he struggles, then Love would be the next cab off the rank.
Has Telea been found out or has he run out of the oil he obviously greased himself up with before every game last year ?
The rapid drop off in his form has been incredible even by All Black wing standards.
He’s gone from being untackleable to wasting time with that sideways jinking shit. His pace looks well down too.
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@canefan said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@booboo Plummer is 26 and only really in his second season of regular game time. He's hardly over the hill. He also led the champion team around the park excellently.
The Plummer hype needs to die down.
I mean the guys got 75 caps at super level. He's been around for 6 seasons now with plenty of opportunity to make an impression on the coaches yet hasnt been able to nail the starting 10 position at his own club.
For the vast majority of his Blues career when he wasnt behind Beauden, he was still behind Perofeta and Otere Black ffs. The only starts he got were when both of them were injured.
The Blues in 2021 won Super Rugby Trans Ta$man with Otere Black, with Plummer sitting on the bench.
Even this year in his breakthrough year, Plummer wasn't the preferred 10.
Perofeta started at 10 for the first 6 rounds until he got injured.The Blues record at that time, with Perofeta leading before injury was 5-1 (only losing to the top of the table Hurricanes).
Only once Perofeta got injured did Plummer get the starting 10 spot. Perofeta only came back 2 weeks before the knockouts.
A week after coming back he was immediately made starting 10 again.
The only reason he didn't continue as starting 10 for the rest of the playoffs is because Sullivan (as the only other experienced fullback) got injured, Perofeta was then moved to fullback to fill the spot and Plummer brought back into 10 for the rest of the playoffs.
So I find it difficult to imagine investing time in a guy for the AB's starting 10 spot when he wasn't even the preferred 10 at his own super club.
Even the coaches who spend the most time with him preferred other players we already have access to.
No one is pretending he's the second coming of DC, merely that since he's in the squad we should give him some time to see what a bigger body, that's displayed defensive capability, an ability to make good decisions keeping the ball in front of his forwards and giving his backline time and space could do for the team.
Because let's be honest here, McKenzie was really fucking average on the weekend. And good results come from competition for spots.
Exactly. I don't know why some posters seem to think this is a zero sum game. Just because we should try Plummer doesn't mean we need to bin DMac to do it
Sure. But isn't he just a stop gap until Perofeta comes back?
If our aim is to give players experience in positions we are planning long term, is there any point doing so with Plummer if he's just out of the squad once Perofeta is back?
In which case, isn't it just a better use of the limited tests we have a year to give our actual starting and long term 10 more and more experience as he doesn't even have 10 caps starting at this level in that position?
I have no faith in Perofeta. He couldn't even get past Plummer at the Blues. Until proven otherwise I don't see him as anything more than a utility, and I think there is greater potential in a few others
But that's not true. Perofeta was the first choice 10 for the first half of the season until he got injured, and the Blues were 5-1 with him, only losing to the top of the table Hurricanes away.
Plummer only got the start due to injury.
Perofeta was back from injury 3 weeks out from the playoffs, and the very next week he was the starting 10 again and immediately usurped Plummer.
The only reason Plummer was made 10 again for the rest of the playoffs is because Sullivan got injured, and Perofeta was the only other capable and experienced full back.
Perofeta had to fill in at fullback and so Plummer got the starting 10 position, again only through injury.As I said before, seems odd to spend time on a guy for the ABs who wasnt even the preferred starting 10 at his own club.
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
As I said before, seems odd to spend time on a guy for the ABs who wasnt even the preferred starting 10 at his own club.
Why do you care so much how he got the role?
He got an opportunity - he caught fire in career best form - he deserves a chance.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
As I said before, seems odd to spend time on a guy for the ABs who wasnt even the preferred starting 10 at his own club.
Why do you care so much how he got the role?
He got an opportunity - he caught fire in career best form - he deserves a chance.
Google Darryl Mitchell NZ test career
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
As I said before, seems odd to spend time on a guy for the ABs who wasnt even the preferred starting 10 at his own club.
Why do you care so much how he got the role?
He got an opportunity - he caught fire in career best form - he deserves a chance.
You're missing the Point. He only got the role due to injury and only kept it due to injury. Perofeta was the first choice 10 from start to finish.
And the Blues were just as dominant when Perofeta was leading the team before getting injured.
The coaches who see Plummer day in and day out at the Blues preferred Perofeta as the starting 10.
That's the point.
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
As I said before, seems odd to spend time on a guy for the ABs who wasnt even the preferred starting 10 at his own club.
Why do you care so much how he got the role?
He got an opportunity - he caught fire in career best form - he deserves a chance.
You're missing the Point. He only got the role due to injury and only kept it due to injury. Perofeta was the first choice 10 from start to finish.
And the Blues were just as dominant when Perofeta was leading the team before getting injured.
The coaches who see Plummer day in and day out at the Blues preferred Perofeta as the starting 10.
That's the point.
Adding further to this point he is only in the All Blacks due to Perofeta getting injured.
We only have 8 more tests, we should be giving time to actual long term ABs that we need to gain experience, not people that are literally injury cover temporarily.
Plummer will be gone immediately when Perofeta is back from injury.
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
He only got the role due to injury and only kept it due to injury. Perofeta was the first choice 10 from start to finish.
That's not entirely true
Forbes was very good for the Blues at fullback in Zarn's absence
Blues could have easily put Perofeta to 10 and put Forbes at 15
Plummer played so well they shifted Perofeta to 15.
