How good are the Boks?
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@Smuts about your comment about era of weak test sides, NZ and certainly Oz are not as strong as they once were. Does that dilute the Boks achievements as the current SH vintages are weaker than those that have gone before? 😬
Teams can only beat what is in front of them. Boks have just managed to do what McCaw’s ABs managed twice in winning 4 in a row. Boks need to keep their foot on the throat and force this generation of ABs to have PTSD like AB teams of yore did to former Boks 😂
I remember several posters on here bemoaning how weak Bok rugby was when the ABs were posting cricket scores at times and if they were the ABs main rivals anymore. That’s quite funny now. The Boks were always going to come back and be strong. And now they are. And it is up to NZ to wrestle back the initiative. Let the ultimate rivalry continue!
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@stodders said in How good are the Boks?:
@Smuts oh, and Os du Randt was better than Beast.
And as much as PSDT has been immense, Juan Smith was his equal. Juan Smith gets forgotten like Richard Hill.
Biggest differentiator is Rassie. Along with Henry and McQueen, they are the best head coaches in the professional era IMO.
Agreed about Smith and Hill
Garland is in the conversation considering the cattle he’s had to herd most of his coaching career
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@MiketheSnow said in How good are the Boks?:
@stodders said in How good are the Boks?:
@Smuts oh, and Os du Randt was better than Beast.
And as much as PSDT has been immense, Juan Smith was his equal. Juan Smith gets forgotten like Richard Hill.
Biggest differentiator is Rassie. Along with Henry and McQueen, they are the best head coaches in the professional era IMO.
Agreed about Smith and Hill
Garland is in the conversation considering the cattle he’s had to herd most of his coaching career
Yup, Judy would be right up there
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In think we're in a pretty good space. The team that played on saturday was missing the following guys from the strongest 23 -
Kitshoff
Snyman
De Jager
Mostert
De Klerk
Arendse
WillemseI also think that the last couple of games have shown that some veterans are being played out of the by younger guys coming in rather old guys falling off (Mngomozulu v Pollard, Fassi v Le Roux and Louw vs Wiese).
We have a kind schedule until the next two games in New Zealand in 2025. Frankly it would be a failure not to dominate for the next 18months or so.
But the big elephant in the room is how we deal with an aging pack. Who do we keep in the side, who gets shifted out and who comes in. We have gotten used to having 10 to 15 world class tight forwards to pick from - that is not normal and you don't think we can just presume the next Etsebeth, Marx, Malherbe, whoever is just going to come out of nowhere.
Thar said - there are some truly great players coming through in positions 7 (our seven) to 15.
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@SidBarret wouldn’t it be funny if NZ developed numerous forward options and a forward dominated approach and the Boks ended up with functioning front row, athletic back row and insane back line. It’d be a complete role reversal of the last 30 years 😬
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For me this team is NOT on a par with the 2008-9 bok team. The big difference is in the squad depth and coaching. One just felt that the 2008 team was not going to have any real longevity as there were very few young players coming through. The "quota" thing. The constant fighting between small minded administrators and coaches. The laager mentality. That seems to have been grown out of.
Rassie is always on about "our structures" and i think that this is the most pleasing aspect of what has transpired. South African rugby is healthy for the first time in many years... maybe in the best health ever. Appointing Kolisi captain and backing him was an inspired move by Rassie. Picking players who will die for the team. Millions of disadvantaged kids now aspire to be springboks. There is real unity in the team and the supporters. It feels like a multiracial sport now. Before, not so much.
The AB's are not vintage and of course neither are the Wallabies. Ireland just beat SA in SA.
So to answer your question...this is a good team, it has the potential to be the best ever but its not there yet. Things haven't really "clicked" Their saving grace is the self belief that rassie has cultivated, and the team culture.
In this team, Kolisi, Marx, Etzebeth, Pollard, Malherbe, de Allende, PSDT, Kolbe are indispensable. They don't come through and win the big games without those players. The transition is happening though. -
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@teachmetherugby said in How good are the Boks?:
The springboks know how to build very well.
From their school systems to their cultural story (they have a Hollywood movie based on it).
And so they have the greatest depth that is never ending , as far as the eye can see. They got a dam movie based on their story.Unmatched. Greater than the haka if we are to compare . Invictus is mythological for all the people of the country . Uniting .
they may not be the most gifted . But I can assure you that on average, their packs have a deeper bond player to player. They always deliver and peak properly for world cups .
They are known for their set plays and they always have a very very reliable kicker . Points are always in their hand.
I do honestly believe that they are the best rugby nation . Population 60million .
Was this AI generated?
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@W32 said in How good are the Boks?:
@teachmetherugby said in How good are the Boks?:
The springboks know how to build very well.
From their school systems to their cultural story (they have a Hollywood movie based on it).
And so they have the greatest depth that is never ending , as far as the eye can see. They got a dam movie based on their story.Unmatched. Greater than the haka if we are to compare . Invictus is mythological for all the people of the country . Uniting .
they may not be the most gifted . But I can assure you that on average, their packs have a deeper bond player to player. They always deliver and peak properly for world cups .
They are known for their set plays and they always have a very very reliable kicker . Points are always in their hand.
I do honestly believe that they are the best rugby nation . Population 60million .
Was this AI generated?
I'm picking English as a second language.
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@OomPB said in How good are the Boks?:
The Springboks havent played well against the All Blacks or Wallabies. The reason for this is the changing of players for every game. Which is fine as long as the win.
Young players like Fassie, Moodie, SMZ, Louw, Nortje, Dixon, Willemse wont be discovered if he didnt gave them a chance to play on top level
Nortje a great find. He's like 30 or something. Like how Rassie is an equal opportunity lifeline thrower
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@booboo said in How good are the Boks?:
@W32 said in How good are the Boks?:
@teachmetherugby said in How good are the Boks?:
The springboks know how to build very well.
From their school systems to their cultural story (they have a Hollywood movie based on it).
And so they have the greatest depth that is never ending , as far as the eye can see. They got a dam movie based on their story.Unmatched. Greater than the haka if we are to compare . Invictus is mythological for all the people of the country . Uniting .
they may not be the most gifted . But I can assure you that on average, their packs have a deeper bond player to player. They always deliver and peak properly for world cups .
They are known for their set plays and they always have a very very reliable kicker . Points are always in their hand.
I do honestly believe that they are the best rugby nation . Population 60million .
Was this AI generated?
I'm picking English as a second language.
read like AI to me
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Bok fans on here…do you think the Boks are 15-20 points better than the current ABs? Boks didn’t play perfectly, but I don’t think they were allowed to. They had to earn their wins.
I ask because there are a lot of Bok posters on X saying they think the Boks would have walloped the ABs in both games if passes had stuck. Is this the true Bok fan view, or just the view of the few?
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@stodders I think that's kinda the wrong question.
It is true that SA were pretty sloppy in both tests and have the potential to be 15 to 20 points better than they were in these games. But potential is a stupid metric.
This trend of making errors at bad times and tripping over themselves has been a constant this whole season, so I'd say the way we played is consistent with how good this team is, bit there is a lot of room to get better.
But what I would say it better over ten tests to win 7 or eight than win 5 with massive points difference. So I wouldn't say we are 20 points better than All Blacks, right now we are two or three games better over a hypothetical 10 match series.
