Springboks vs All Blacks 2
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@BerniesCorner yep. ABs have lost half a test season now to work on their attacking patterns after jettisoning LM.
Starting tight forwards aren’t the issue for ABs to solve. EDG to start and TW from the bench, Samisoni as bench hooker. ABs need to find a replacement for Ofa who offers little from the bench. Darry or Lord from the bench until Holland is eligible.
Loose forward mix is still troubling, although Sititi brought some much needed power and go forward today. He has to be persevered with after that performance. The Jerry/Richie/Rodney backrow was not tall, but they were immense at the breakdown and around the park. I have a feeling that Sititi/DP/Savea is a combo I would like to see at some point. I really like the look of Segner and hope he will make the step up.
I think the centres need some work. NZ needs a 12 that will get them over the advantage line. DDA was immense today. Jordie was good, but he has been hot and cold this year. McKenzie needs an out ball at 12, like DC used to have with Nonu.
As for the back 3, NZ is blessed with outside backs, but the balance isn’t right. NZ, like under Henry, needs to pick some guys who are good at the basics like catching and chasing kicks. Clarke was doing exactly what was needed last week. Test rugby is about pressure - limit mistakes and force your opponent to make decisions under pressure.
I think it is time for some new blood too. Love has earned his chance. Can’t do worse than BB or WJ.
This is year 1 of a an IP rebuild having lost years of experience. Those with experience still playing have not filled the leadership vacuum that was created after 2023 WC final. If Coles, Retallick, Whitelock, Smith were still playing, ABs are winning one of these 2 tests IMO.
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@canefan said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
I did notice that almost all of our box kicks and bombs could not be classified as contestable, because we couldn't get close enough to contest. Whereas the Boks accuracy allowed them to contest almost all theirs
You know why? Jogging wingers. Our kickers get hammered because our wingers aren't committed in th3 chase. And when they do go, dumb Reece gives away an easy yellow card. What an awful game.
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Also nice (annoying) to listen to Justin Marshall play to his saffer audience too. What an absolute crumb.
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@mariner4life everyone loves Justin because he is so objective 😂
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@mariner4life said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
The "oh its not that bad south africa are so good" attitude astounds me. They weren't good today, they were good enough. We put them under huge pressure, they made so many errors, and we couldn't even get a try despite numerous opportunities. That was winnable and we did not.
We're not good enough and this highly touted coaching team is under huge pressure.
South Africa are being made to look waaaaaaaay better than they are. They are living such a charmed life. It looks like sour grapes from me but hear me out.
There are sections of this springbok team whose talents are way over blown.DDA and Kriel…..Smith and Nonu would school them every day of the week. We dealt with this pair for years with no problem.
Willie Le Roux…..we made a joke of him for years on end . He was just a professional ref whinger . Ben Smirh had him on toast.
Kolisi….if he was white , nobody would care about him. Nothing player. Tactical injury instigator, ref whisperer, and heads or tails caller.
Its just too nice to play the Allblacks these days. There is no Brad Thorn, Collins, Kaino, Mealamu street fighting types.
We are a fresh faced, easy on the eye paint by numbers team. We almost look like the NZ under 20’s.
We need a few horrible bastards.The 2015 vintage would wreck these springboks.
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@stodders said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
I think the centres need some work. NZ needs a 12 that will get them over the advantage line. DDA was immense today. Jordie was good, but he has been hot and cold this year. McKenzie needs an out ball at 12, like DC used to have with Nonu.
No you don’t. Jordie is great. Holds your backline together. He’s the load bearing Barrett. And so is his brother Scott.
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@Hooroo said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
How fucking poke is Talea? Can’t and won’t tackle and can’t catch.
Wouldn't mind someone like AJ Lam taking his spot in the squad tbh. He's versatile aswell which is a bonus.
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@Jet I disagree with DDA and Kriel. I think they are a world class centre combo. Personally, I’d take the JdV/Fourie combo, but DDA/Kriel deserve the plaudits and to be mentioned in the same conversation as them.
Kolisi is not the greatest open side. But he gets that team playing and fighting for every inch. He empties himself every game. And wears out opposing teams in time for Kwagga to come on and do his thing.
I’ll partly agree with WLR. His best days are behind him, but on his day he is still a brilliant orchestrator at the back. I think he will be one of the first to make way when Willemse returns, along with (whisper it) Malherbe, who was munched today more than I can ever remember him being.
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Great when Vaai lets off a bit of steam. Has a good yell. Need a bit more of that.
Missing Sami
We are getting there. Change the back 3 and get Reiko on the wing. -
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@Smuts said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@stodders said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
I think the centres need some work. NZ needs a 12 that will get them over the advantage line. DDA was immense today. Jordie was good, but he has been hot and cold this year. McKenzie needs an out ball at 12, like DC used to have with Nonu.
No you don’t. Jordie is great. Holds your backline together. He’s the load bearing Barrett. And so is his brother Scott.
Nah even as a Canes supporter I don't think Jordie is the answer long term, I'd be happy if he returned to fullback tbh where his ability under the high ball and his kicking game are way more of an asset. All Jordie does is run hard and straight and even then he doesn't always get over the gain line because he doesn't have power.. The ABs are so predictable because when Jordie decides to run you know he's going straight with his inability to step and evade defenders with silky footwork.
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@BerniesCorner Reiko from the bench would give real impact against tiring defences and cover for 11/13/14.
Clark and Jordan on the wings. Just need to find a fullback who is brave under the high ball, with a good boot and a sense of adventure to attack when the opportunity presents itself. Love maybe. What about Sullivan? Too raw?
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The name is Rieko.
There are some really overblown comments on this thread.
Kolisi is a decent player, the SA midfield is one of the current best, their bench timings and bench talent clearly better than ours.
We are still very close but something falls off 50 to 60 minutes in. The bench drop is interesting, against England I thought finally the coaches were timing it right.
Not any more.
It's not like NZ to have such an unsettled 15 or back three. Stick to a specialist 15 and choose dominant wingers. For example, I like Reece, he is normally very hardworking, but he seems to get overwhelmed at test level against quality opposion.
Our older bench players are not offering calm heads. I agree we still have a leadership problem. But Cane plays better when not Captain.
Overall I have enjoyed these games (but the reffing last game soured it for me) and if we can improve the backline and the brains I think we are going to do ok.
People have forgotten how badly the ABs were at the start of the Foster period. -
I sound like a broken record but it needs to be highlighted. On at least 2 occasions in this game south African forwards ran at savea one-on-one...
And he backed off and scragged both times instead of coming forward and getting a shoulder in
And a part of me died on each occasion. Our starting #8 is a physical non-entity on defence.
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@stodders said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@BerniesCorner Reiko from the bench would give real impact against tiring defences and cover for 11/13/14.
Clark and Jordan on the wings. Just need to find a fullback who is brave under the high ball, with a good boot and a sense of adventure to attack when the opportunity presents itself. Love maybe. What about Sullivan? Too raw?
I'm not sure about Sullivan but he should be tried, has size, and his boot could be useful
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On the subs
What I think the huge benefit to south africa is, because they do them so early, to the merriment of traditionalists (lol their starters can't even play 60)
When the whips are cracking at the death, their players are well settled in to the rhythm of the game, where as ours, on at a more "traditional" time, are still finding their feet. It's proving an enormous advantage.
Rassie may be a giant fuck wit, but he's on to something in a big way there.
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Well I expected that loss so wasn't as disappointed as otherwise (I'm still more gutted the Pies lost to the dollar bills baabaas).
Taylor was on fire, it's weird my liking of him as a player decreased through no fault of him, he kept getting selected by the coaches when playing cabbage, but that was vintage form from him.
The Boks appear to be Jordan's kryptonite based on this match and the RWC final. He just can't seem to impose himself as we expect. None of our back three were any good, I assume when I read back through the thread that the ire will mostly be directed at Telea, but even the best of them, Reece, was bloody average.
Reffing was a bit of a lottery, as expected, probably more down to style than anything else. Thought he changed the interpretation of ruck stoppages for the one where Marx scored, but we didn't lose due to the ref. I thought for sure that last penalty from DMac went over, but it was 3am so maybe my old man eyes weren't focusing very well.
All of our high kicks were uncontestable, all of theirs were contestable. Why do we bother doing them if we can't compete?
I thought Barrett was going to bring some leadership? I don't really see it.
Cane was slightly inaccurate at times but he was just hitting people and rucks all day. You can't watch that match and not see why even Razor is picking him.
Vai'i had another good match, and is very enthusiastic. Most of the pack went well - Williams, Lomax (card aside, and even then there wasn't much in that, it looked to me like he braced for impact rather than change his line) and the already mentioned players.
TJP just needs to keep his mouth shut now, but I'm not convinced he's worse than other players, but he's clearly being targeted by the refs now so he needs to zip it.
I watched the match with the sound off, it was quite a nice way to watch it, I could focus on plays and players without commentator hyping. Although there were some areas I was a bit confused, but still might be my new style of watching, especially when Nisbett is the commentator.
Well what a shit weekend of sport. At least the Warriors got 2 points.
