RSA vs NZ, 1st Test, Durban
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SidBarret" data-cid="611377" data-time="1472734210">
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<p>It is remarkable how similar Steyn's record is to that of Hadlee at this stage.</p>
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<p>Hadlee It is Mat Inns Balls Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 4w 5w 10 Tests 86 150 21918 9611 431 9/52 15/123 22.29 2.63 50.8 25 36 9</p>
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<p>Steyn Mat Inns Balls Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 4w 5w 10 Tests 84 155 17210 9252 416 7/51 11/60 22.24 3.22 41.3 25 26 5</p>
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<p>Shame Steyn didn't have a 4 match series against the Black Caps - could have grabbed those 16 wickets to pass Sir Richard at the same stage.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Siam" data-cid="611362" data-time="1472728100">
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<p>Yeah I know there are a lot of ifs and buts and I wouldn't put even the dog house on him</p>
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<p>however, I do get excited by fellas that consistently put good length balls away. Warner is the best example and at the time there was no one that impressed me more than fat Jessie in his pomp. Those big scores he made and the shot over square, repeatedly, was a skill that not many have.</p>
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<p>Perhaps Munro is more of a muse than a solution but we're not like inundated with batsmen with the necessary raw prerequisites like say, England - only joking ;)</p>
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<p>yeah i agree - guys with time and the eye to take a good ball and tonk it anyway are pretty rare, and are probably the best starting point if you want to get a world class batsman.</p>
<p>it's an oversimplification, but for tests it basically comes down to having that ability, and then having the discipline to not use it (when the ball is moving around).</p>
<p>the other thing i guess is that a diet of short form cricket with spinners bowling flat shit and him trying to whack it out of the park is no way for a guy like munro to learn to play spin. i really hope he has been working on it though, because while it's an incredible thing to be able to handle someone like dale steyn at all, it's kinda moot if you then go and make imran tahir look like the lovechild of shane warne and muralitharan.</p>
<p>another batsman, southee sorting his shit out, and ish continuing to develop and we'd be right up there.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="TeWaio" data-cid="611376" data-time="1472733240">
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<p>The same English-centric press especially love to talk about totals,<strong> i.e. most all time wickets/runs, rather than averages. England play so much more test cricket than most nations</strong>, it makes their veterans look even better (not that they don't have some great players),</p>
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<p>If that's the case how come it took so long for someone ( Cook ) to break Gooch's run scoring record ? Same with Anderson ( and Broad closing in ) on Beefy Bothams wicket taking record ?</p>
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<p>I've always known Steyn was really good but if you apply the fern adage of 50 being the new 40 in terms of batting these days then that translates to him averaging late teens if he played 20-30 years ago. THAT is fucken exceptional when as Gollum alludes to an average in the late 20s nowadays is considered excellent. Not sure where rotated gets the 5% Bond>Steyn statistic, we all love Bond and he walks into an all time BC XI without question despite his short career but saying he was better than Steyn is a MASSIVE call. I think it's a case of looking back at guys who are retired and getting a bit misty eyed and putting them on a higher pedestal than they perhaps deserve. </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="611422" data-time="1472771124">
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<p>Not sure where rotated gets the 5% Bond>Steyn statistic, we all love Bond and he walks into an all time BC XI without question despite his short career but saying he was better than Steyn is a MASSIVE call. I think it's a case of looking back at guys who are retired and getting a bit misty eyed and putting them on a higher pedestal than they perhaps deserve. </p>
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<p>It's not really a statistic, just to my eye I just felt like Bond at his best was a more threatening, wicket taking bowler against quality batting than Steyn at his best. Steyn obviously had the long jeapordy - so as a career it isn't even close, just peak Bond to me was better.</p>
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<p>He has the wood on him in SR in both tests and ODI so it passes the smell test to me - but to each their own.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="KiwiPie" data-cid="611389" data-time="1472756869">
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<p>Shame Steyn didn't have a 4 match series against the Black Caps - could have grabbed those 16 wickets to pass Sir Richard at the same stage.</p>
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<p>I was reading in the newspaper this morning that Steyn now has 68 wickets @ 16.04 vs NZ. Ouch!</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="611422" data-time="1472771124">
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<p>If that's the case how come it took so long for someone ( Cook ) to break Gooch's run scoring record ? Same with Anderson ( and Broad closing in ) on Beefy Bothams wicket taking record ?</p>
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<p>My point was their records today vs other nations today are inflated by playing a lot more tests.</p>
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<p>Beefy and Gooch played 102 and 118 tests, so also had long careers.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="TeWaio" data-cid="611547" data-time="1472805116">
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<p>My point was their records today vs other nations today are inflated by playing a lot more tests.</p>
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<p>Beefy and Gooch played 102 and 118 tests, so also had long careers.</p>
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<p>Gooch's test career was close on 20 years - Cook is barely over 10 years - if Cook plays as long as Gooch he'll be well over 200 tests</p> -
As good a place as any for this. Guptill won't be dropped soon when his likely replacement isn't selected in the squad to tour India.
Kane Williamson (c), Martin Guptill, Tom Latham, Ross Taylor, Henry Nicholls, BJ Watling, Jimmy Neesham, Mitchell Santner, Mark Craig, Ish Sodhi, Tim Southee, Trent Boult, Neil Wagner, Doug Bracewell, Luke Ronchi.
So Neesham is back until he gets injured again and Raval and Henry have been dropped.
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No idea how to link articles on the new software but Gav Larsen said something along the lines of "All Rounders" like Neesham and Bracewell bringing some balance to the side. Um excuse me but what the fuck Mr Postman ???? The Neesh I can accept ( although his bowling needs work ) but in what universe does a guy who hasn't scored a 50 after 27 tests be classed as an all rounder ? Craig, Sodhi, Southee and Boult have all managed what he can't.
Hoping Watling stays as fit as possible and is doing lots of stretching cos fuck having Ronchi anywhere near the team. Is there no young up and comers in NZ ?
Craig ? well he benefits from the "we're touring India, let's get enough spinners in the team" selection policy.
Tough tour, as always so much will depend on KW and Taylor. Hope everyones guts can stand a tour of the sub continent too.....
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The Big Show goes baaang. First T20, and Aus score 263 in their innings, with Maxwell getting 145 off 65, Of course Sri Lanka were never in the hunt chasing a total that big
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Is it a straight shoot out between Neesh and Santner for that 6-7 spot in the batting line up or is there room for both of them ? With 15 wickets in 7 tests Santner has done ok so far and that tally is positively Murali/Warne like for a BC spinner. Is Neesh gonna be fit enough to offer a genuine bowling option to the team ?
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@MN5 said in RSA vs NZ, 1st Test, Durban:
Is it a straight shoot out between Neesh and Santner for that 6-7 spot in the batting line up or is there room for both of them ? With 15 wickets in 7 tests Santner has done ok so far and that tally is positively Murali/Warne like for a BC spinner. Is Neesh gonna be fit enough to offer a genuine bowling option to the team ?
In India - in fact probably anywhere - I'm inclined to think Santner is locked in as the number one spinner.
From the last test, I think Neesham would take Bracewell's place, but they'd want him most likely to bat at six, BJ slips down to his regular seven and Santner at eight. That's really strong - as long as Jimmy is actually good enough to bat at six.
Then - if you want two specialist spinners for a dustbowl track in India - you can slot Ish or Mark Craig in - for either Neesham or, possibly, Southee. Say...
Latham, Guppy, Williamson, Taylor, Nicholls, Neesham, BJ, Santner, Ish, Wagner, Boult
Three seamers, two specialist spinners plus Kane and Guppy as part-timers. It's slightly light on pace, but no shortage of workhorses and options.
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So you reckon Southee isn't the lock that he has been for the last few years ? iffy form or not I personally can't see him being dropped. JN as third seamer seems a drop in quality from what we've been used to once one of Boult or Wagner gets replaced.
The Neesh has had a very good start to his test batting career but whether that's a sign of things to come is another matter. I'd hate to see him do an Oram and get worse as his career progresses from concentrating on the bowling too much. Big Jake ended up at 8-9 towards the end of his ODI career, pretty sure N McCullum surpassed him for fucks sake.
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@MN5 said in RSA vs NZ, 1st Test, Durban:
So you reckon Southee isn't the lock that he has been for the last few years ? iffy form or not I personally can't see him being dropped. JN as third seamer seems a drop in quality from what we've been used to once one of Boult or Wagner gets replaced.
I can't really see him getting dropped, either - most likely he'd play and Jimmy wouldn't from the team I've picked above. But it's possible - depending on how much batting firepower they were willing to forego for a bit of extra seam firepower. If it's really not going to help the seamers then surely one of them should sit.
Right now, if you had to choose between Boult, Wagner and Timmy for a test in India - surely it would be Tim who got the boot.
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@Chris-B. said in RSA vs NZ, 1st Test, Durban:
@MN5 said in RSA vs NZ, 1st Test, Durban:
Is it a straight shoot out between Neesh and Santner for that 6-7 spot in the batting line up or is there room for both of them ? With 15 wickets in 7 tests Santner has done ok so far and that tally is positively Murali/Warne like for a BC spinner. Is Neesh gonna be fit enough to offer a genuine bowling option to the team ?
In India - in fact probably anywhere - I'm inclined to think Santner is locked in as the number one spinner.
From the last test, I think Neesham would take Bracewell's place, but they'd want him most likely to bat at six, BJ slips down to his regular seven and Santner at eight. That's really strong - as long as Jimmy is actually good enough to bat at six.
Then - if you want two specialist spinners for a dustbowl track in India - you can slot Ish or Mark Craig in - for either Neesham or, possibly, Southee. Say...
Latham, Guppy, Williamson, Taylor, Nicholls, Neesham, BJ, Santner, Ish, Wagner, Boult
Three seamers, two specialist spinners plus Kane and Guppy as part-timers. It's slightly light on pace, but no shortage of workhorses and options.
I like that team but as MN5 says they're unlikely to drop our "senior pace bowler" Southee from the lineup, no matter how much he deserves it.
& how the fuck is Ronchi anywhere near the test team?? I thought that was the ODI squad when I saw his name. Surely there's a promosing youngster that can go along and learn from BJ.
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@mariner4life said in RSA vs NZ, 1st Test, Durban:
The Big Show goes baaang. First T20, and Aus score 263 in their innings, with Maxwell getting 145 off 65, Of course Sri Lanka were never in the hunt chasing a total that big
That's massive. TBH I'm surprised we don't see more 250+ scores in T20s with the way the game favours batsmen now.
