Gordon Tietjens steps down
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It's interesting surmising what gameplan a new coach will bring. Titch believed that Rio would suit bigger, powerful players who could dominate the contact and breakdown. Ryan implemented a gameplan that had the Fijians eschew the breakdown and rely on their natural ability to keep the ball alive.
New Zealand is still missing some gas too.
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@antipodean said in Gordon Tietjens steps down:
It's interesting surmising what gameplan a new coach will bring. Titch believed that Rio would suit bigger, powerful players who could dominate the contact and breakdown. Ryan implemented a gameplan that had the Fijians eschew the breakdown and rely on their natural ability to keep the ball alive.
New Zealand is still missing some gas too.
surely that is the first job? Find some players with pace. Or build them. But we've been down on speed compared to our main competitors for a while haven't we?
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@mariner4life said in Gordon Tietjens steps down:
@antipodean said in Gordon Tietjens steps down:
It's interesting surmising what gameplan a new coach will bring. Titch believed that Rio would suit bigger, powerful players who could dominate the contact and breakdown. Ryan implemented a gameplan that had the Fijians eschew the breakdown and rely on their natural ability to keep the ball alive.
New Zealand is still missing some gas too.
surely that is the first job? Find some players with pace. Or build them. But we've been down on speed compared to our main competitors for a while haven't we?
We haven't had genuine pace probably since that O'Donnell boy first came on to the scene. But he was unable to maintain it for a variety of reasons.
We've looked a little stale for probably 2 years. We've been able to get the odd tournament result but it's seems Titch was unsuccessful in finding that right gameplan to mix structure and flair with the cattle he selected.
Fantastic coaching career and amazing work ethic to keep it going at the highest level for so long.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Gordon Tietjens steps down:
@mariner4life said in Gordon Tietjens steps down:
@antipodean said in Gordon Tietjens steps down:
It's interesting surmising what gameplan a new coach will bring. Titch believed that Rio would suit bigger, powerful players who could dominate the contact and breakdown. Ryan implemented a gameplan that had the Fijians eschew the breakdown and rely on their natural ability to keep the ball alive.
New Zealand is still missing some gas too.
surely that is the first job? Find some players with pace. Or build them. But we've been down on speed compared to our main competitors for a while haven't we?
We haven't had genuine pace probably since that O'Donnell boy first came on to the scene. But he was unable to maintain it for a variety of reasons.
We've looked a little stale for probably 2 years. We've been able to get the odd tournament result but it's seems Titch was unsuccessful in finding that right gameplan to mix structure and flair with the cattle he selected.
Fantastic coaching career and amazing work ethic to keep it going at the highest level for so long.
Didn't we have Stowers, O'Donnell and Lam for a bit when they were all pretty quick? But somehow they didn't all maintain the standards all the way through.
I think Titch's gameplan this year was due to the fact that we don't have express pace and we weren't going to magically find it before the Qlympics. I guess our quick guys in NZ focus on 15 speed rather than 7s speed.
I don't know if any coach of NZ could have come up with a plan that would have won the Olympics given the cattle available.
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we've never had many express pace merchants though.
Always just big fast dudes (Lam in that category)
Someone like BB woulda been awesome, but, in choosing not to play 7s', look at what he has achieved this year!
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I'm not sure it was all down to pace. (and it goes without saying that Sevens is a pretty even place these days, the games are short, the referees have a huge influence on the game, and there is no magic formula to win every Sevens tournament).
Reckon they never replaced Tomasi Cama as the playmaker. We seemed to lack deception in the last couple of years - the ability to break a defence open with just a shrug and a step.
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Toni Pulu would've been a good signing, he's got plenty of pace, though he's already played Sevens for Niue, so they would've had plan the nationality switch out in advance. Bred Weber's another with some real pace.
TBH though, I think we're overstating the importance of pace. I felt like the team was a bit of a mess this year, with way too many players going in and out of the team. A lot of those couldn't be avoided with all the injuries but the plan with the Super players seemed to be a complete failure, which showed that Titch was right to reject guys like Ben Smith who just wanted to jump into the squad at the business end. If they're going to do something similar in Tokyo (or the next Commonwealth Games), I think they need to keep the Super players involved all season, maybe playing every second tournament or something, rather than just at the start and end of season.
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I think part of the disappointing results is the number and severity of injuries as well. This year was extreme, but there were also many injuries in previous years. I wonder whether the training regime had anything to do with that. At some tournaments, the players looked already tired at the first day and mentally "not quite there". That could be a sign of being overtrained.
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When I think of the speedsters we've had in the sevens in the past the names Vidiri, Randle, Fleming etc come to mind. None of the players we've used in the last 5 yrs are in that class. Then we had the x-factor players, e.g. Lomu, Cullen, who gave the team an extra edge.
Sure injuries have played a part but it seems that Titch never really settled on the tactics to get the best out of the players he had at his disposal. Perhaps the "success" in Wellington and Sydney gave everybody a false sense of the strength of the team, and they hoped to be able to flick the switch and replicate that style in Rio. Unfortunately the x-factor players like the Ioane bros failed to deliver in Rio, and other injury-prone players got injured again.
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@Nepia said in Gordon Tietjens steps down:
@ACT-Crusader said in Gordon Tietjens steps down:
@mariner4life said in Gordon Tietjens steps down:
@antipodean said in Gordon Tietjens steps down:
It's interesting surmising what gameplan a new coach will bring. Titch believed that Rio would suit bigger, powerful players who could dominate the contact and breakdown. Ryan implemented a gameplan that had the Fijians eschew the breakdown and rely on their natural ability to keep the ball alive.
New Zealand is still missing some gas too.
surely that is the first job? Find some players with pace. Or build them. But we've been down on speed compared to our main competitors for a while haven't we?
We haven't had genuine pace probably since that O'Donnell boy first came on to the scene. But he was unable to maintain it for a variety of reasons.
We've looked a little stale for probably 2 years. We've been able to get the odd tournament result but it's seems Titch was unsuccessful in finding that right gameplan to mix structure and flair with the cattle he selected.
Fantastic coaching career and amazing work ethic to keep it going at the highest level for so long.
Didn't we have Stowers, O'Donnell and Lam for a bit when they were all pretty quick? But somehow they didn't all maintain the standards all the way through.
I think Titch's gameplan this year was due to the fact that we don't have express pace and we weren't going to magically find it before the Qlympics. I guess our quick guys in NZ focus on 15 speed rather than 7s speed.
I don't know if any coach of NZ could have come up with a plan that would have won the Olympics given the cattle available.
Better playmaking would've helped considerably.
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Many have said it before, I think we need to manage 7's independently of 15's. It sends the wrong message to players looking at or playing circuit 7's to have super rugby players come in, and none of them made an impact anyway. In many ways touch is a better fit skills wise. There must be players in NZ that have the skills and creativity we need
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Just listened to Tietjens on the TV news tonight. His comments highlight the problem sevens has competing with XVs. He identified 3 players from the U19 tournament that he wanted in the sevens programme and the players wanted to be involved. But those players were selected by Super teams/WTGs so weren't available. No mention of the names but it would be easy enough to work out.
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I'm a bit of a fair weather Sevens fan but in my less than expert view it seems the rest of the world moved on but NZ didn't ?
22 years is a hell of an effort but no one can maintain such excellence for that long. It was a bit simplistic for talkback morons to say Beauden Barrett, Ardie Savea etc should have been "made" to play Sevens for the chance at an Olympic Medal. They didn't want to jeopardise their AB careers even for part of a year and in the case of those two have achieved great things in the longer form of the game.
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Yup, BB has had a breakout season that he would not have had if he went to the 7s. I am very pleased he chose the ABs, we have our starting 10 for the next 5 odd years now.
Same goes for Ardie (not on the breakout season part) but having him in the AB camp has been invaluable to his development.
Don't get me wrong, I wanted to win the 7s medal. But I want the ABs to win way way more.
