Americas cup
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For whatever reason this thread made me go back to watch footage of One Australia sinking back in 95. Hilarious at the time but how tf did that even happen?
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@Kiwiwomble said in Americas cup:
@Snowy said in Americas cup:
@Canes4life said in Americas cup:
I'm not a big fan of us taking part in the Louis Vuitton regatta,
Who's "us"? That mob with NZ in the name certainly isn't (I might be a little bitter about the whole theft thing).
The whole thing is wrong. The defender is in the LV and it's being held in Spain.
Who won it last time again???
im not going to argue with the idea it "should" be raced in NZ, would be awesome and much preferred...but its also not the first time a defender has taken to a neutral venue and if the alternatives were genuinely loosing it because we didnt have the money to compete or no one coming to NZ to challenge and the whole thing slowly dying, i think we have to go with it
Ive seen it suggested several times on socials ETNZ have killed the AC moving away from traditional monohulls....its revisionist excuse to beat up on ETNZ ignoring it was Oracle that moved to Cats
the one thing they could have done is commit to bring ever second regatta back to NZ or something
They can host it wherever they like, and sail it in whatever boats they like, that is pretty much in the whole AC deed of gift premise but don't take public money to win it and then when the return is due bugger off with it. That is certainly not "Team NZ". It was done in very bad faith IMO.
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@Snowy they havent taken pubic money for this defence have they? they had funding before Auckland?
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Americas cup:
For whatever reason this thread made me go back to watch footage of One Australia sinking back in 95. Hilarious at the time but how tf did that even happen?
Now that you mention it, I have never actually seen a reason for the structural failure. Can only assume that they were keeping weight down or quite simply got the loading model wrong in the design. Yes it was very amusing.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Americas cup:
@Snowy they havent taken pubic money for this defence have they? they had funding before Auckland?
Yep last time. I don't think that "we" will fall for that one again...
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@Machpants said in Americas cup:
Don't get you snowy, they had public money for the last defence, it was in NZ. They have had no public money for this defence, it is not in NZ?
The "understanding" is that the winner hosts it. That would be in Auckland. For any return on investment it would have needed to happen again. TNZ were representing RNZYS - in Auckland.
No it wasn't written down, but that it how it has historically happened and was expected. A one and done, we're out of here has not happened previously (that I am aware of). Even Dirty Den was representing San Diego YC when it went there IIRC.
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@Snowy said in Americas cup:
@Machpants said in Americas cup:
Don't get you snowy, they had public money for the last defence, it was in NZ. They have had no public money for this defence, it is not in NZ?
The "understanding" is that the winner hosts it. That would be in Auckland. For any return on investment it would have needed to happen again. TNZ were representing RNZYS - in Auckland.
No it wasn't written down, but that it how it has historically happened and was expected. A one and done, we're out of here has not happened previously (that I am aware of). Even Dirty Den was representing San Diego YC when it went there IIRC.
except for 3 of the 4 before 2021.......
@Bovidae said in Americas cup:
I'm pretty sure that the benefits of the injection of government/council money was to be realised in the next AC. There weren't many overseas visitors in 2021 due to Covid.
and that was ETNZ's fault? if they've only secured funding for one defence in NZ...and then covid screws tourism for that defence...they just have to suck it up?
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@Snowy said in Americas cup:
@Machpants said in Americas cup:
Don't get you snowy, they had public money for the last defence, it was in NZ. They have had no public money for this defence, it is not in NZ?
The "understanding" is that the winner hosts it. That would be in Auckland. For any return on investment it would have needed to happen again. TNZ were representing RNZYS - in Auckland.
No it wasn't written down, but that it how it has historically happened and was expected.
I disagree. All the business cases had to be predicated on teh risk that we lost the cup. Then you're not hosting any more.
Defence costs money - serious money. We don't have it ... so you have to find it somewhere. Reality is that sponsorship and TV revenue is all bigger if you host in the NH summer at good timezones ... so that's where they have gone.
It's not great, but I understand 'why'. The costs also blow up because host cities (like RWC2011 or APEC) use it as an excuse to rehabilitate a bunch of areas. So there are costs hung on the event that are very much not directly associated with hosting/defending.
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i did not have "kiwiwomble is an apologist for rich fluffybunnies fucking over NZ" on my bingo card
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Nah @Snowy is spot on. ETNZ screwed Akl over massively and knowingly.
Akl were never going to get a return on the infrastructure investment they made for the last defence particularly once it was affected by Covid meaning no overseas visitors. Dalton always knew Akl had gambled on a successful defence to make money in 2024. Council and central govt offered him $100 mill to defend again in Akl but he decided to cash in and go out for a bidding war.
Ironically ETNZ aren't the holders RNZYS is. I wish they'd told Dalton to fuck off we will find another defender.
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Grant Dalton is just Sir Peter Blake from Wish anyway
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@nzzp said in Americas cup:
All the business cases had to be predicated on teh risk that we lost the cup. Then you're not hosting any more.
As I said.though the return would come if it was held a second time in NZ and the money was to give them a better chance of doing that,
@nzzp said in Americas cup:
It's not great, but I understand 'why
I understand why as well. I just don't like it. Or "them" for doing it. Believe me it's not often I would even bother trying to take a moral ground! It doesn't suit me.
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NGL I'd rather be based in Spain too.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Americas cup:
except for 3 of the 4 before 2021.......
😏I was deliberately ignoring the landlocked country aspect of it.
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@dogmeat said in Americas cup:
Nah @Snowy is spot on. ETNZ screwed Akl over massively and knowingly.
Akl were never going to get a return on the infrastructure investment they made for the last defence...
especially if they'd lost it...any business case can only have been made on one defence...and if it wasnt then it was a stupid fucking decision...but that would be on auckland council and not just ETNZ
and ETNZ cant be the whipping boys for covid fucked something up
@mariner4life said in Americas cup:
i did not have "kiwiwomble is an apologist for rich fluffybunnies fucking over NZ" on my bingo card
like to keep you on your toes, next week i'll be taking the "Trumps not that bad angle" in the US politics thread
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@Snowy said in Americas cup:
@nzzp said in Americas cup:
All the business cases had to be predicated on teh risk that we lost the cup. Then you're not hosting any more.
As I said.though the return would come if it was held a second time in NZ and the money was to give them a better chance of doing that,
Look, this will sound simplistic, but if that's the basis fo the business case, surely you'd contract to keep in NZ. I mean, it's $100M, this is the big time. In business, that's weak from central/local Govt.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Americas cup:
@Snowy said in Americas cup:
@Canes4life said in Americas cup:
I'm not a big fan of us taking part in the Louis Vuitton regatta,
Who's "us"? That mob with NZ in the name certainly isn't (I might be a little bitter about the whole theft thing).
The whole thing is wrong. The defender is in the LV and it's being held in Spain.
Who won it last time again???
im not going to argue with the idea it "should" be raced in NZ, would be awesome and much preferred...but its also not the first time a defender has taken to a neutral venue and if the alternatives were genuinely loosing it because we didnt have the money to compete or no one coming to NZ to challenge and the whole thing slowly dying, i think we have to go with it
Ive seen it suggested several times on socials ETNZ have killed the AC moving away from traditional monohulls....its revisionist excuse to beat up on ETNZ ignoring it was Oracle that moved to Cats
the one thing they could have done is commit to bring ever second regatta back to NZ or something
Maybe they would have moved there anyway, but Dirty Dennis Connor built the first AC catamaran...
