RSA vs NZ, 1st Test, Durban

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="611118" data-time="1472636622">
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There not a lot between the sides? So England, who beat Aussie last time out, beat SA in SA, beat India in India, are on par with NZ who Aussie dicked 4-0 & SA just did by an innings & have we EVER won in India? That's on par?
 
 
 
 
Indeed, almost like he has got better... as his 258 v SA would tend to indicate.
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Yes - England are the third equal ranked test side and, now that we've lost that game to SA we've slipped from 5th to 6th =.
 
On the other hand, we're ranked 2nd in Odis and 1st in T20, while England are 5th in both of those - so across the three forms, I'd say fairly even.
 
On Stokes - he couldn't get out of the Under-13s in Christchurch, let alone make the full provincial side! He must surely have improved - I can't believe England would pick him otherwise? :)

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="611118" data-time="1472636622">
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Ok, lets go. Mark Craig ended up playing for Gloucs seconds. Wagner I flagged as probably able to do well in England given his bowling style, as for the "Whole lot"? Which ones? Guys like Munro & Neesham can get gigs as T20 bash specialists - Chris Harris & Brad Hogg can still get gigs doing that.
 
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Glancing just through this season's first class cricket averages (I know there's also people like Milne just playing short form stuff and as you say, Craig and a few others) - NZers with county contracts...
 
Neil Broome, Craig Cachopa, James Franklin, Matt Henry, Tom Latham, Hamish Marshall, Johan Myburgh, Kieran Noema-Barnett, Jeetan, Hamish Rutherford, Fat Jesse, Mitchell Santner, Ross Taylor, Neil Wagner and Kane Williamson.

MN5

The way I see it England have Root and Cook who are world class and very good respectively. NZ have Williamson and Taylor....exactly the same. Other batsmen match up more or less the same in my opinion. Stokes has gone on to do the things I'd expect from Anderson, the Neesh or even Santner. Their seamers have maintained their standards better than Boult and Southee though although the way Wagner has taken up the reins is pretty inspirational.
 
I don't think your comparison of the Aussie guys is that apt in this situation Gollum, from the late 90s until recently Australia had class batsmen from 1 through to 7 ( Gilly ). Man for man England are comparable to the Black Caps.

Immenso Rapido

England definitely better at the moment and on the improve, NZ on the decline. (In tests. And the trend isn't great in other forms either) 
County cricket to Plunket not much difference. As Chris pointed out there are heaps of kiwis in county cricket these days and doing well. 
Gollum's use of examples of guys on t20 contracts or Craig getting some 2nd XI gigs as a part of a tour prep as a favour by Bracewell - is disingenuous.

mariner4life

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Immenso Rapido" data-cid="611196" data-time="1472685452">
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England definitely better at the moment and on the improve, NZ on the decline. 
County cricket to Plunket not much difference. As Chris pointed out there are heaps of kiwis in county cricket these days and doing well. 
Gollum's use of examples of guys on t20 contracts or Craig getting some 2nd XI gigs as a part of a tour prep as a favour by Bracewell - is disingenuous.
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on the Fern? get out. really?
 
 
England seem to be on the rise in their ODI stuff after the disaster of the World Cup, some good results coming through. See their score the other night?

mariner4life

After being humbled in the tests, and their skipper heading home because he was "tired" Aus are romping the ODI series. Finch with a 19-ball 55, and again, George Bailey getting runs, currently averaging 75 for the series. His ODI average is now a very healthy 42.

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Immenso Rapido" data-cid="611196" data-time="1472685452">
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England definitely better at the moment and on the improve, NZ on the decline. (In tests. And the trend isn't great in other forms either).
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I'm not too despondent.
 
The big step backwards is the retirement of McCullum - so we need to build up Nicholls or another to replace him at No. 5. Brendon's retirement has been exacerbated by the long term injuries to Anderson and Neesham, who ordinarily would bat at 6 and provide the 4th seamer - which allows BJ to bat at 7 and Santner at 8.
 
Most promising thing about the South Africa "series" was seeing Boult bowling balls on the fringe of 140kmh. Last year against the Aussies he was struggling to get above 130. Now, I know that speed guns around the world vary significantly, but the Aussie ones are usually about the most generous.
 
England are definitely on the improve - but, what last year's CWC debacle shows is that they have to get their selection spot on to compete at international level. They can't just whistle up a bunch of guys who have done well in county cricket in the same way we can't solve our problems by just picking Colin Munro.

mariner4life

Immenso Rapido

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="611209" data-time="1472688264">
I'm not too despondent. 
The big step backwards is the retirement of McCullum - so we need to build up Nicholls or another to replace him at No. 5. Brendon's retirement has been exacerbated by the long term injuries to Anderson and Neesham, who ordinarily would bat at 6 and provide the 4th seamer - which allows BJ to bat at 7 and Santner at 8. 
Most promising thing about the South Africa "series" was seeing Boult bowling balls on the fringe of 140kmh. Last year against the Aussies he was struggling to get above 130. Now, I know that speed guns around the world vary significantly, but the Aussie ones are usually about the most generous. 
England are definitely on the improve - but, what last year's CWC debacle shows is that they have to get their selection spot on to compete at international level. They can't just whistle up a bunch of guys who have done well in county cricket in the same way we can't solve our problems by just picking Colin Munro.</blockquote>
 
That's good to hear. 
I didn't actually watch any of this series (I like my off-seasons). 
I was going to say the biggest factor in our decline is Southee and Boult being shit for about 18 months now. We'd already started to decline in Baz's last year. But encouraging if Boult can get 'it' back. 
I'm expecting us to decline a bit anyway off a historic high, so that's no tragedy. Happened about 2 years earlier and more rapidly than I would have hoped/expected.

No Quarter

Boult was very good and could have taken a lot more wickets with a bit more luck. Southee though was still bowling a lot of shit with the odd good ball thrown in. He started his career like that, then had a patch of consistent bowling under Bond, then went back to his old ways pretty much as soon as Bond left. Bloody frustrating as for a while there he was genuinely world class.
 
It's a real shame Milne has had so many injury problems, he would add a sting to our test attack that is sorely missing at the moment.

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="611225" data-time="1472692948">
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Boult was very good and could have taken a lot more wickets with a bit more luck. Southee though was still bowling a lot of shit with the odd good ball thrown in. He started his career like that, then had a patch of consistent bowling under Bond, then went back to his old ways pretty much as soon as Bond left. Bloody frustrating as for a while there he was genuinely world class.
 
It's a real shame Milne has had so many injury problems, he would add a sting to our test attack that is sorely missing at the moment.
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Boult bowled really well, lots of swing and pace was pretty comparable to Dale Steyn.
 
I think he'd get a lot more wickets if he didn't have the inconsistency of Southee at the other end.
 
 
Bracewell offers nothing, get rid of him and make Wagner the 3rd seamer from now on.

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="611211" data-time="1472688841">
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That movie should be ashamed to call itself Mad Max after Mels efforts in the 80s.....

mariner4life

fuck off dick, it's fucking awesome. Have you watched the originals recently?

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="611228" data-time="1472696112">
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fuck off dick, it's fucking awesome. Have you watched the originals recently?
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Yes I have, obviously you haven't stalked me on FB enough.
 
First one I can take or leave but the next two are absolutely sensational. They're somehow minimalist flicks in terms of dialogue and to some extent plot with awesome car chases thrown in ( Granted I was impressed with the lack of CGI in the latest one but have a look at Mad Max 2, the stunt work is exceptional )
 
Mel has starred in some shit since ( he learns to read womens minds so what does he do, spend a movie trying to root Helen Hunt ?!?!?! )
 
Tom Hardy was strapped to the front of a fucken car for about half of the most recent one for fucks sake. Didn't like it that much but I guess with Terminator, Bond....oh and a new Star Wars it was always pushing shit a bit uphill last year to be fair.
 
Just so this doesn't get deleted I'll stay on topic. Black Caps will have learnt a lot from this defeat moving forward.

mariner4life

no, i saw that. I just figured it was just another of your awesome "ironic" posts. 
 
 
And i bet we didn't learn shit from that loss. We'll lose like that again.

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="611266" data-time="1472709482">
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no, i saw that. I just figured it was just another of your awesome "ironic" posts. 
 
 
And i bet we didn't learn shit from that loss. We'll lose like that again. 
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Na just my honest view. I went in to Mad Max excited as fucken anything and was left a bit "Meh" afterwards that's all.
 
I just added the last bit in to stay on topic, given some of the cattle the Black Caps have at the moment a loss like that is very, very disappointing cos this SA team is not that much better than them.

mariner4life

Except for Dale Steyn, who is head and shoulders above our bowlers. Well, most bowlers actually, his career is some all-time shit. 
 
He also scored more runs than 3 of our top order, despite only batting once. And being #11

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="611272" data-time="1472710909">
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Except for Dale Steyn, who is head and shoulders above our bowlers. Well, most bowlers actually, his career is some all-time shit. 
 
He also scored more runs than 3 of our top order, despite only batting once. And being #11
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Yeah he is some fucken bowler and that psychotic look he has must be pretty off putting.
 
Nicholls has probably shown enough promise to have 10 crap scores in a row but people will still point out the gutsy innings in a losing cause and that he should be persevered with.

Billy Webb

So I have been following this thread with some interest.
I thoroughly enjoyed the 2nd test match and SA's dominance. Especially given that you Kiwis are highly likely to return the thumping favour when it comes to the Rugby Championship - so I'll take my sweets for now ;)
 
But from my view, the difference in that test was obviously the Proteas first innings. And as well as they performed, the Black Caps had some chances to possibly shoot us out for sub-300. Some missed chances, one or two marginal calls that went SA's way, and some unfortunate use / non-use of DRS by the kiwis. Could have been a different game had even some of that gone the other way.
 
So I guess the point I am making is that the Proteas are not quite as good as the result may suggest, nor are the Black Caps as poor.
Obviously Dale Steyn hitting some good form, well backed up by Philander and KG was a great help. But with Wagner, Boult and Southee the Black Caps don't have a shabby seam attack either.
Kane Williamson is class, and with Nicholls and even / still Ross Taylor, there is more than enough batting strength for the Caps.

Siam

I want to see Munro get a go. Seriously. That lad has talent and time to judge and play shots. 
Don't know if he'll get picked but I'd be interested in seeing how he goes.

The Silver Fern

RSA vs NZ, 1st Test, Durban