Euro 2024
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@MiketheSnow It's the style of play these guys struggle to adapt to. A bit different when you have guys like Pep, Arteta, Tuchel, Ancelotti etc playing to your strengths and then having to play under a former failed Middlesbrough manager.
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An interesting stat is that Croatia had a higher tournament xG (expected goals) than England having played 3 games against England's 7. For the whole tournament, England went long stretches without doing anything at all and their goals largely came out of the blue. They should have gone home losing to Slovakia in the last 16, they were awful in that game and rescued by a freakish piece of brilliance. I imagine if Bellingham's overhead kick had ended up in row Z, Southgate would have already resigned.
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Outside of Alf Ramsey who won silverware, Southgate is the most successful England manager by a country mile
We know he’s not lucky so he must be good
And he’s had to manage some bang average players and taken them deep in tournament after tournament
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@MiketheSnow Don't agree with much of that.
I'm not a Gareth hater but he's been very lucky at tournaments both in 2018 and this year the tournament opened up for England. 2018 their group was Belgium who they lost to, Panama and Tunisia. Then they had Colombia who they beat in a shootout, Sweden and lost to Croatia.
This years draw was also very kind.
2022 WC they went out to the first decent team they faced. Even 2021 was kind. All bar one of their games at home. Only good teams they faced resulted in a draw with Croatia and win against a poor Germany and a loss to Italy.
He's also been fortunate to have some bloody good players to pick from. Have a look at the squads Hodgson had to work with.
Southgate has instilled a great spirit and got players wanting to play for each other and England, something that hasn't always been the case but I'd say he's been a lucky Manager.
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with all due respect, i hate that.
It's tournament football, the draw is part of it. And frankly basically every team was "poor" but only England are allowed to benefit from it? France were dogshit and made a semi. Just because they are big countries doesn't mean they turned up. The Swiss were the dark horses. Beaten.
The came a headed clearance from taking this supposedly great Spanish team to extra time. I am sure it's frustrating that they keep going deep in tournaments but failing. But as someone who watched way more hyped English teams do much much worse for a couple of decades, they are doing alright.
I do agree that this might be the time to see if someone else can tip them over the edge for the World Cup though
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@mariner4life said in Euro 2024:
The came a headed clearance from taking this supposedly great Spanish team to extra time. I am sure it's frustrating that they keep going deep in tournaments but failing. But as someone who watched way more hyped English teams do much much worse for a couple of decades, they are doing alright.
I think this team actually peaked at the 2022 World Cup, that team looked much better structurally than now, Foden was playing wide left with Shaw supporting and the balance was much better. It was Southgate's worst finish to a major championship because he ran into France in the quarters. In his other quarter-finals it was Sweden, Ukraine, Switzerland.
Not to mention he managed to get England relegated from the Nations League Group A which means they will be playing in Group B outside of the top 16 in Europe.
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@MiketheSnow said in Euro 2024:
For the regular football watchers, was Kane knackered and/or injured?
I ask because he was scoring goals for fun at Bayern this season with what looked like a real spring in his step
He got injured at the tail end of the German season. Back injury I believe.
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@mariner4life I think this tean has been massively hyped. Certainly pre-tournament, not so much once they started playing.
Not as much as the 'Golden Generation' teams but I've followed England in tournaments since 1980 and this one was definitely favoured by most. Not just the tabloids but almost every media outlet / blog/ pod whatever in England and elsewhere had them one of the top two favourites. Certainly much more so than Spain.
I do think most of the 'big' teams failed to deliver.
Italy were shite but that should have been expected.
Portugal would have almost certainly been better off without Ronaldo.
Germany did better than expected
France were woeful
Netherlands probably over-performed - not much was expected of them pre-tournament
England were a curates egg. They made the final but that was in line with most expectations. Anything less than a semi-final would have been a massive underachievement. The younger players in the main did really well, the more established super stars; not so much. Foden, Bellingham, Rice and especially Kane failed to live up to expectations. They bumbled and stumbled their way to the final, where they were outplayed but still in it with 5 minutes to play.
Spain, Switzerland, Slovakia, Georgia, Austria, Turkey exceeded expectations. Slovakia and Georgia massively so. I didn't anticipate them getting out of their groups although they did do so as 3rd place getters -
I think part of the hype is related to the English fans, especially, and media putting the EPL on such a pedestal. This means that the abilities of the English players are often inflated relative to players from other leagues/nationalities. How many would have heard of Fabián Ruiz or Mikel Oyarzabal before the Euros?
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@mariner4life I think this tean has been massively hyped. Certainly pre-tournament, not so much once they started playing.
Not as much as the 'Golden Generation' teams but I've followed England in tournaments since 1980 and this one was definitely favoured by most. Not just the tabloids but almost every media outlet / blog/ pod whatever in England and elsewhere had them one of the top two favourites. Certainly much more so than Spain.
I do think most of the 'big' teams failed to deliver.
Italy were shite but that should have been expected.
Portugal would have almost certainly been better off without Ronaldo.
Germany did better than expected
France were woeful
Netherlands probably over-performed - not much was expected of them pre-tournament
England were a curates egg. They made the final but that was in line with most expectations. Anything less than a semi-final would have been a massive underachievement. The younger players in the main did really well, the more established super stars; not so much. Foden, Bellingham, Rice and especially Kane failed to live up to expectations. They bumbled and stumbled their way to the final, where they were outplayed but still in it with 5 minutes to play.
Spain, Switzerland, Slovakia, Georgia, Austria, Turkey exceeded expectations. Slovakia and Georgia massively so. I didn't anticipate them getting out of their groups although they did do so as 3rd place gettersI wonder how much of the failure of many of the big names was because it was at the end of a long season and most of the top players would not have been rested for any nation.
I still think with that English squad they should have achieved what they did, but the lack of coherence between individuals to play as a team was probably the most disappointing aspect.
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IMO England need a new manager. A bold manager would have dropped Kane and started another striker. What more does Palmer need to do to get a start? Not to mention starting the tournament with the failed TAA experiment and bringing on the horrible Conor Gallagher who is bang average. I’m still a bit dark that Switzerland went out to England but that is the Swiss way: a lack of killer mentality at the pointy end of tournaments.
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I think part of the hype is related to the English fans, especially, and media putting the EPL on such a pedestal. This means that the abilities of the English players are often inflated relative to players from other leagues/nationalities. How many would have heard of Fabián Ruiz or Mikel Oyarzabal before the Euros?
I'm sure Tim Henman would agree about the way English sports fans hype their sportspeople up
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Pretty good record. The game they play is pretty dire, but I think that is in the English DNA for a number of sports? Southgate favours toilers and athletes over X factor guys like Maddison (admittedly out of form since injury) and Grealish. I can recall the same mindset applied to Glenn Hoddle back in the day as well
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@mariner4life said in Euro 2024:
The came a headed clearance from taking this supposedly great Spanish team to extra time. I am sure it's frustrating that they keep going deep in tournaments but failing. But as someone who watched way more hyped English teams do much much worse for a couple of decades, they are doing alright.
I think this team actually peaked at the 2022 World Cup, that team looked much better structurally than now, Foden was playing wide left with Shaw supporting and the balance was much better. It was Southgate's worst finish to a major championship because he ran into France in the quarters. In his other quarter-finals it was Sweden, Ukraine, Switzerland.
Not to mention he managed to get England relegated from the Nations League Group A which means they will be playing in Group B outside of the top 16 in Europe.
These are two interesting points. Indeed, the calendar year for 2024 hasn't been a good one for England - I think they have only scored 11 goals in 13 games (or something close to that). Suggests that 2024 was too late for Kane, Walker, Trippier, but too early for Bellingham, Foden, Palmer etc.
I don't like him, but in fairness he was the right man when appointed and he has done a good job of bringing some dignity back to English football. But having done that, the team seems to need someone with more tactical ability to make the most of the available talent and get them a trophy.
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Odds for next England manager
Graham Potter 2/1 (English, ex Brighton and Chelsea)
Eddie Howe 5/1 (English, Newcastle)
Lee Carsley 6/1 (Irish, England Under 21s)
Maurico Pochettino 8/1 (Argentine, ex- Southampton, Spurs, PSG and Chelsea)
Thomas Tuchel 12/1 (German, ex-PSG, Chelsea and Bayern Munich)
Frank Lampard 20-1 (English, ex-Chelsea and Everton)
Jurgen Klopp 20-1 (German, ex-Liverpool)
Pep Guardiola 20-1 (Basque, Man City, ex-Barcelona and Bayern Munich)
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Big problem for the FA. The non-English managers on that list are a lot more qualified than those who are English.
I can't see Pep Guardiola taking the pay cut. I was talking last week to someone who knows Jurgen Klopp and when he said he was taking a year out of the game he meant it.
That leaves Thomas Tuchel as the best candidate if he'd do it.
