Hurricanes v Highlanders
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@Canes4life said in Hurricanes v Highlanders:
@Landers92 oh right so you didn't take it from the whole squad. Interesting indeed.
Nah mate just both of this weeks starting teams
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Part of it I'm sure is players leaving mid - late 20s if they're not a top tier AB to get more money overseas.
The bulk of the Canes and Landers squads could stick together for 10 years, but it won't happen, as the non AB superstars will eventually go overseas earlier than they might have if we had money to compete.
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@Landers92 said in Hurricanes v Highlanders:
Out of curiosity I thought it would figure out the average age of the Highlanders forwards, backs and team overall. Will put them below for anyone who takes any interest in that stuff.
Starting Forwards average age: 25
Starting Back average age: 23.8
Starting XV average age: 24.5(24.4666 if you want to get technical).For anyone interested, the average age of the bench this weekend is 24.8.
This might be our youngest Highlanders starting XV we have ever named. If it isn’t then it has to come close to it but it definitely is in recent times.
We did run a team, I think against the Crusaders where nine players were 22 and under in the match day squad. It is a very young team. Will probably be in its peak in three or four years.
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@foobaNZ said in Hurricanes v Highlanders:
Part of it I'm sure is players leaving mid - late 20s if they're not a top tier AB to get more money overseas.
The bulk of the Canes and Landers squads could stick together for 10 years, but it won't happen, as the non AB superstars will eventually go overseas earlier than they might have if we had money to compete.
Not wrong, but the one advantage the current Hurricanes and Highlanders squads have, is that they are full of local players, who in theory may be more inclined to stay... looking at the Highlanders for example, I think you'd hope most of the following will stay until 2031:
de Groot
Wingham
Bell
Taylor
Holland
Haig
Withy
Michaels
Stodart
Arscott
Hastie
Millar
Te Hiwi
J WhaangaThat's a good core for a squad, especially when you add in the handful of players who stick around (Someone like JRK for example could be here for a while if he makes the ABs)
Think this is the trap the Highlanders have fallen into. Signing a 24 year old from Ta$man who has no affiliation to Dunedin isn't likely to stick around as long as someone who is local and loves the club. As soon as they get good, an offer comes from overseas, and with no good reason to stay they jet off.
Helps with squad continuity, which is the key for any long-term success.
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@frugby most of those players would be insane to stay until 2031 unless they were All Blacks. Those young guys could make a killing in Europe/Japan. Players like Withy, Haig, Arscot, etc could spend 10 years in Europe. All blacks or overseas for anyone who’s serious about their career
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The key is maintaining the production line. Arscott or Hastie drop out, Dylan Pledger comss in. We will get longer out of the starting players, than the squad guys. If we keep most guys for four to five years, and the top guys, who become All Blacks until their early 30s, we are doing well as a club. Same with keeping our decent players away from other NZ sides. Someone like Oli Haig is a potential flight risk, especially as he is eligible for both Australia and England, as well as NZ. I'd expect most of the second stringers to only stay one contract extension, depending where the guy in front of them is in their career. For example, if Faktqva misses the All Blacks over the next couple of years, Arscott and Hastie might like their chances to get the starting role. Pacific eligible players will probably track their careers around world cup cycles. Management just need to ensure there aren't years where we lose 16 players or where we lovkdown players because we are desperate who aren't up to it.
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@foobaNZ said in Hurricanes v Highlanders:
@frugby a bloke can play for and love the Landers all they want, but the reality for someone in their mid - late 20s if double the coin is on offer overseas they're unlikely to stay purely out of love for their super team.
My point, is that someone who loves the Landers is more likely to stay until they are 30 as opposed to leaving when they are 26-27... not a guarantee of course, but I'd expect most of those listed to stick around assuming they are wanted, and are playing well.
Go look at the list of those 27> players who have left NZ from Super Rugby teams since 2021, and look how many of them weren't playing for their home franchise from when they were growing up. Obviously, some of these things are affected by World Cup cycles, but still notable:
- Aidan Morgan (Auckland/Hurricanes)
- Fergus Burke (Waikato/Crusaders)
- Connor Garden-Bachop (Wellington/Highlanders)
- Taine Plumtree (Wellington/Blues)
- Alex Nankivell (Canterbury/Chiefs)
- Leicester Fainga'anuku ( Ta$man/Crusaders)
- Marino Mikaele-Tu'u (Hawke's Bay/Highlanders)
- Scott Gregory (Northland/Highlanders)
- Josh Goodhue (Northland/Blues)
- Isaiah Punivai (Wellington/Crusaders)
- Sio Tomkinson (Otago/Highlanders)
- Alex Fidow (Wellington/Hurricanes)
- Jacob Pierce (Auckland/Blues)
- Otere Black (Manawatu/Blues)
- Brett Cameron (Manawatu/Crusaders)
- Josh McKay (Canterbury/Crusaders)
- Teariki Ben Nicholas (Wellington/Highlanders)
- Liam Mitchell (Manawatu/Hurricanes)
- Luke Campbell (Wellington/Hurricanes)
- Orbyn Leger (Waikato/Hurricanes)
- Vince Aso (Auckland/Hurricanes)
Quite possible that Campbell, Mitchell, McKay, Pierce, Fidow, Tomkinson, Leger, Ben-Nicholas, Black, Punivai, Gregory & Morgan weren't even offered serious renewals either, so the notion that quality Super Rugby players leave in their mid 20s and spent years in Europe doesn't hold. The crap ones leave when not offered a contract, and the good ones go when they are 28+ generally at the end of a World Cup cycle.
I think this also shows, that local guys are way more likely to stick around...
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An issue the Highlanders also face is that Dunedin is a great place to be 18 - 23 and 35+, it is just a lot of people leave the city in their mid 20s to early 30s. This means players may get pressure from their partners to leave, or feel lonely if the majority of their friends leave Dunedin. What we can do is hope that a few make the All Blacks and others feel close and want to stay. Three - five years is realistic for a lot of the guys who will never make the All Blacks.
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@SouthernMann said in Hurricanes v Highlanders:
An issue the Highlanders also face is that Dunedin is a great place to be 18 - 23 and 35+,
said literally the same thing myself several times
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@SouthernMann said in Hurricanes v Highlanders:
An issue the Highlanders also face is that Dunedin is a great place to be 18 - 23 and 35+, it is just a lot of people leave the city in their mid 20s to early 30s. This means players may get pressure from their partners to leave, or feel lonely if the majority of their friends leave Dunedin. What we can do is hope that a few make the All Blacks and others feel close and want to stay. Three - five years is realistic for a lot of the guys who will never make the All Blacks.
Which goes back to my point, that local guys are more likely to stay because they at least have something to hold them here.
For example, there was nothing to hold Tyrel Lomax here, so he left.
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@frugby said in Hurricanes v Highlanders:
@SouthernMann said in Hurricanes v Highlanders:
An issue the Highlanders also face is that Dunedin is a great place to be 18 - 23 and 35+, it is just a lot of people leave the city in their mid 20s to early 30s. This means players may get pressure from their partners to leave, or feel lonely if the majority of their friends leave Dunedin. What we can do is hope that a few make the All Blacks and others feel close and want to stay. Three - five years is realistic for a lot of the guys who will never make the All Blacks.
Which goes back to my point, that local guys are more likely to stay because they at least have something to hold them here.
For example, there was nothing to hold Tyrel Lomax here, so he left.
Of course. As someone mentioned as well, home franchises tend to keep their better players as well. That helps too. We just need to keep the flow of players coming, and have some decent talent ID running around the country.
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@SouthernMann said in Hurricanes v Highlanders:
@frugby said in Hurricanes v Highlanders:
@SouthernMann said in Hurricanes v Highlanders:
An issue the Highlanders also face is that Dunedin is a great place to be 18 - 23 and 35+, it is just a lot of people leave the city in their mid 20s to early 30s. This means players may get pressure from their partners to leave, or feel lonely if the majority of their friends leave Dunedin. What we can do is hope that a few make the All Blacks and others feel close and want to stay. Three - five years is realistic for a lot of the guys who will never make the All Blacks.
Which goes back to my point, that local guys are more likely to stay because they at least have something to hold them here.
For example, there was nothing to hold Tyrel Lomax here, so he left.
Of course. As someone mentioned as well, home franchises tend to keep their better players as well. That helps too. We just need to keep the flow of players coming, and have some decent talent ID running around the country.
Exactly. For every Aidan Morgan, there is a Daniel Lienert-Brown who falls in love with their adopted club and stays for a lengthy period of time.
If you can have a good local core, and a decent contingent of All Blacks, sprinkle in a few loyal players from elsewhere and you can stay competitive for a while. Highlanders have the right idea in regards to the first part, stage two is watching some of these guys trickle into the ABs...
In a best case scenario of the current squad, I think the following could have ABs careers:
de Groot
Holland
Haig
Withy
Stodart
Fakatava
Faleafaga
Ratumaitavuki-KneepkensStill need a top end midfielder, but you can see a spine of a very competitive side there.
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@frugby said in Hurricanes v Highlanders:
@SouthernMann said in Hurricanes v Highlanders:
@frugby said in Hurricanes v Highlanders:
@SouthernMann said in Hurricanes v Highlanders:
An issue the Highlanders also face is that Dunedin is a great place to be 18 - 23 and 35+, it is just a lot of people leave the city in their mid 20s to early 30s. This means players may get pressure from their partners to leave, or feel lonely if the majority of their friends leave Dunedin. What we can do is hope that a few make the All Blacks and others feel close and want to stay. Three - five years is realistic for a lot of the guys who will never make the All Blacks.
Which goes back to my point, that local guys are more likely to stay because they at least have something to hold them here.
For example, there was nothing to hold Tyrel Lomax here, so he left.
Of course. As someone mentioned as well, home franchises tend to keep their better players as well. That helps too. We just need to keep the flow of players coming, and have some decent talent ID running around the country.
Exactly. For every Aidan Morgan, there is a Daniel Lienert-Brown who falls in love with their adopted club and stays for a lengthy period of time.
If you can have a good local core, and a decent contingent of All Blacks, sprinkle in a few loyal players from elsewhere and you can stay competitive for a while. Highlanders have the right idea in regards to the first part, stage two is watching some of these guys trickle into the ABs...
In a best case scenario of the current squad, I think the following could have ABs careers:
de Groot
Holland
Haig
Withy
Stodart
Fakatava
Faleafaga
Ratumaitavuki-KneepkensStill need a top end midfielder, but you can see a spine of a very competitive side there.
or aaron smith, he truly loved the Highlanders
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@frugby said in Hurricanes v Highlanders:
@SouthernMann said in Hurricanes v Highlanders:
@frugby said in Hurricanes v Highlanders:
@SouthernMann said in Hurricanes v Highlanders:
An issue the Highlanders also face is that Dunedin is a great place to be 18 - 23 and 35+, it is just a lot of people leave the city in their mid 20s to early 30s. This means players may get pressure from their partners to leave, or feel lonely if the majority of their friends leave Dunedin. What we can do is hope that a few make the All Blacks and others feel close and want to stay. Three - five years is realistic for a lot of the guys who will never make the All Blacks.
Which goes back to my point, that local guys are more likely to stay because they at least have something to hold them here.
For example, there was nothing to hold Tyrel Lomax here, so he left.
Of course. As someone mentioned as well, home franchises tend to keep their better players as well. That helps too. We just need to keep the flow of players coming, and have some decent talent ID running around the country.
Exactly. For every Aidan Morgan, there is a Daniel Lienert-Brown who falls in love with their adopted club and stays for a lengthy period of time.
If you can have a good local core, and a decent contingent of All Blacks, sprinkle in a few loyal players from elsewhere and you can stay competitive for a while. Highlanders have the right idea in regards to the first part, stage two is watching some of these guys trickle into the ABs...
In a best case scenario of the current squad, I think the following could have ABs careers:
de Groot
Holland
Haig
Withy
Stodart
Fakatava
Faleafaga
Ratumaitavuki-KneepkensStill need a top end midfielder, but you can see a spine of a very competitive side there.
Out of the age grade players I'll add in Dylan Pledger and I really hope Kiseki Fifita returns down south. He looks to be the best outside back the lower south has produced in a long time. Dam Mormon missions!
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@SouthernMann said in Hurricanes v Highlanders:
The key is maintaining the production line. Arscott or Hastie drop out, Dylan Pledger comss in.
A player we haven’t seen enough of is Hastie, can’t seem to be healthy when it matters. From what I’ve seen he’s offered a little more than Arscott but that is an incredibly small sample size.
You would think Pledger can unseat Connor McLeod from his spot within the WTG. Or like you said, replace one of the 2 of Arscott or Hastie.
Anyway this is a game thread, not the Otago thread haha my bad.
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@Landers92 said in Hurricanes v Highlanders:
@SouthernMann said in Hurricanes v Highlanders:
The key is maintaining the production line. Arscott or Hastie drop out, Dylan Pledger comss in.
A player we haven’t seen enough of is Hastie, can’t seem to be healthy when it matters. From what I’ve seen he’s offered a little more than Arscott but that is an incredibly small sample size.
You would think Pledger can unseat Connor McLeod from his spot within the WTG. Or like you said, replace one of the 2 of Arscott or Hastie.
Anyway this is a game thread, not the Otago thread haha my bad.
I don't think there are technically WTG spots anymore. Players just come in and out, depending on the need. Hauiti-Parapara was down in Dunedin for some of the season. There is no doubt pledger will be around the squad for most of next year. He should also get some Otago gametime this season. He is similar to Hurley though, suffers from midgetitis. Probably has a fair bit of gym time scheduled over the next year or so. As this is a game thread, I'm looking forward to watching us get flogged tomorrow.
