All Time ODI XI

Chris B.

Too many Jaapies, Sid. :)
 
Usual problems of comparing across eras - in the 1980s 220 was a par score, these days it's 280 - so you probably need to knock at least 10 runs off today's top order batsmen's averages to compare them with batsmen in the 1980s. That's not entirely fair, because players today have simply got better at playing the game - Sir Viv would have to learn to play the ramp shot and the reverse sweep, or conversely today's batsmen would have to abandon them because they barely had helmets and visors when ODI cricket first kicked off.
 
On Amla - he's fashioned a superb record, but he doesn't scream "all time best" to me - a tier down as a very good player. To not put too fine a point on it, a team with two of the six best all time batsmen doesn't get knocked out by New Zealand in a World Cup semi.
 
On Pollock - well, he's probably part of the conversation, but for me Imram walks into the team ahead of both him and Kapil. Imran became a genuine specialist batsman as well as being a deadly bowler - Kapil more a bowler who could bat and hit massively - never had the genuine pace of Imran.
 
In fact, for the four great 80s allrounders I think most would rank them as bowlers: Hadlee, Imran, Kapil, Botham*; as batsmen Botham*, Imran, Kapil, Hadlee.
 
Botham comes with an asterisk because he really had two careers - the first where he was fucking good and the second where he was a bit shit, really - injuries and a bad attitude. Imran sort of did too, in that he converted himself from a deadly pace bowler to a middle order batsman. It's possible that Imran at his peak was a marginally better bowler than Hadlee at his peak - but Sir Paddles never really faded and should also be part of the conversation.
 
On Murali, a marginally better bowling record than Warne, but a significantly worse batsman. Applying the logic in selecting Pollock, you'd surely also select Warnie? 
 
Edit: Bevan warrants a place - he was phenomenal in his day.

Godder

I'd pick Hadlee - excellent economy rate, great tactical thinker, more than capable of scoring quick runs at the end and an underrated fielder.

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="608525" data-time="1471993099">
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M Waugh
Gilchrist
Sangakarra
Lara
Kallis
Afridi
Bevan
Khan
Warne
Ambrose
McGrath
 
My team to play your team, using only players you didn't select. Gilly to go after it. Waugh, Sanga, Lara, and Kallis to set it up (still at a decent clip), Afridi and Khan to give it a lash at the death, Bevan to steer us around if we are in trouble.
 
4 genuine wicket takers, the other 10 to be shared between Kallis and the part timers. 
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That team is not exactly shit M4L. Afridi and Bevan could swap positions depending on the situation ( if you need to rebuild or smash ) and you could put the house of one of numbers 3-5 getting a massive individual score. I was tempted to suggest Dravid but his ODI record is pretty ordinary ( 12 hundreds in 344 matches ) which surprised me, no way he gets in ahead of Kallis. Gilly and Sangakarra both automatic picks if you don't have the option of Dhoni.
 
I was thinking perhaps Gayle over M Waugh ( one all time favourite for another ) but in terms of an opening combo Gilly and Afghanistan were out of this world on their day. Would be nice to see Bond or Hadlee in there although for whom I don't know considering that bowling line up.....
 
As an aside can I nominate Imran Khan as, dare I say it, an "underrated" player ? his cricketing stats are out of this world, he comfortably beats the other three all rounders of his era.

MN5

So now you fuckers have had your picks it's my turn.....( with what is left so this is essentially a third 11 )
 
Matthew Hayden
Chris Gayle
Dean Jones
Javed Miandad 
Shivnarine Chanderpaul
Ian Botham
Brendon McCullum ( c and wk )
Richard Hadlee
Saqlain Mushtaq
Dale Steyn
Waqar Younis
 
Lightening pace and intimidation from Steyn and Younis with Paddles being a slightly more steadying influence bowling as first change. Spin from Mushtaq ( I may not get the choice of Warnie or Murali but google this blokes record ). Beefy and Gayle to share the remaining overs ( my team does lack bowling options up top ). It's definitely a "wicket taking" as opposed to "containing" line up so that is a bit of a risk I'll admit but can easily picture those three quicks tearing through a line up.
 
Two big hitting left handers to open the batting with numbers 3-5 set to score big and at a reasonable pace. Beefy and McCullum ( feels funny having him in the team but without Gilly, Dhoni, Sanga and De Villiers I genuinely couldn't think of anyone better and to be honest whilst a few of his teammates have captained their countires none did so better than he did so he gets the nod ) to provide the fireworks with able support from Paddles. I think I have a perfect balance of hitters and more steady players in the batsmen although the tail is potentially slightly suspect especially by todays standards.

Chris B.

You've pipped me with your third XI MN5 - we need to be a bit creative....a bit of overlap, but nonetheless....
 
Virender Sehwag
Gordon Greenidge
Dean Jones
Virat Kohli
Javed Miandad
Brendon McCullum
Richard Hadlee
Andy Roberts
Saqlain Mushtaq
Dennis Lillee
Waqar Younis
 
None of you gonna score enough runs from my attack! :)

No Quarter

Are we really saying Bondy doesn't make the top 3 all time XI's? He didn't play a huge number of games but he was pretty fucking unstoppable, regularly rolling the top sides in the world and made the much feared Aussie batting lineup his bitches on more then one occasion.

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="608573" data-time="1472003492">
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You've pipped me with your third XI MN5 - we need to be a bit creative....a bit of overlap, but nonetheless....
 
Virinder Sehwag
Gordon Greenidge
Dean Jones
Virat Kohli
Javed Miandad
Brendon McCullum
Richard Hadlee
Andy Roberts
Saqlain Mushtaq
Dennis Lillee
Waqar Younis
 
None of you gonna score enough runs from my attack! :)
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Shit, the two Indians who's names start with V are glaring omissions from my team.
 
Just googled Andy Roberts, he had an excellent ODI record, arguments could also be made for Michael Holding too but, strangely, whilst Malcolm Marshall would be a genuine contender for the more prestigious title of all time Test XI his ODI record means he doesn't feature amongst the very best, he averaged nearly 27 in the shorter form.

No Quarter

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Kohli would be in line for Ponting's position in the team. Interestingly, when compared with his contemporaries, Kohli misses out based on his strike-rate (~85) which by my very rough view puts him in the league of Dean Jones, Abbas, Lara and Sangakara in estimation. In truth the number four spot could go to any of about five different players. Maybe Kohli will separate himself from the pack as his career develops..
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Good points and fair enough. I thought his strike rate was higher TBH. I think by the end of his career he'll be hard to leave out.

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="608575" data-time="1472003843">
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Are we really saying Bondy doesn't make the top 3 all time XI's? He didn't play a huge number of games but he was pretty fucking unstoppable, regularly rolling the top sides in the world and made the much feared Aussie batting lineup his bitches on more then one occasion.
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I agree and I loved Bondy but I guess his career was too short to get a mention ?

Donsteppa

So many great possibilities to pick for this.
 
Sir Paddles is in my team, even if he's batting #10 or #11

mariner4life

One we have all overlooked is one D Vettori. Dan was a fucking great limited overs spinner, and contributor of (ugly) lower order runs

MN5

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One we have all overlooked is one D Vettori. Dan was a fucking great limited overs spinner, and contributor of (ugly) lower order runs
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Definitely a contender but not ahead of the other guys mentioned already and always surprised me how ordinary his batting was overall in ODIs compared to how good he eventually got in tests. I did think of him initially as an option for my team but Mushtaq had some sensational figures.

No Quarter

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="608581" data-time="1472004573">
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Definitely a contender but not ahead of the other guys mentioned already and always surprised me how ordinary his batting was overall in ODIs compared to how good he eventually got in tests.
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Yeah but fuck this is an NZ site so let's show a bit of bias eh? Fuck we would if this was an all time rugby team, there'd barely be a player from another country selected.

No Quarter

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Donsteppa" data-cid="608579" data-time="1472004141">
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So many great possibilities to pick for this.
 
Sir Paddles is in my team, even if he's batting #10 or #11
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You'd be hard pressed to better an opening combo of Paddles and Bond.

mariner4life

NQ is right!
 
Dan, Bondy, Baz, Kane and the Hairy Javelin go straight in to my team! Up the Black Caps!

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="608582" data-time="1472004897">
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Yeah but fuck this is an NZ site so let's show a bit of bias eh? Fuck we would if this was an all time rugby team, there'd barely be a player from another country selected.
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I chose Paddles and Baz. My work is done.
 
Would it help if I said Justin Vaughan narrowly missed out on an all rounder spot ?

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="608585" data-time="1472005059">
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I chose Paddles and Baz. My work is done.
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Me too and I seriously considered Martin Crowe and vaguely considered Danny and Kane.
 
Kumble was probably the next spinner off the rank, but he's a little way behind Saqlain.
 
Baz was in a battle with Andy Flower - since those picking the first and second elevens seemed to need to pick two keepers each - presumably because none of them were superb technicians and they might need someone to take over the gloves. :)

Donsteppa

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="608582" data-time="1472004897">
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Yeah but fuck this is an NZ site so let's show a bit of bias eh? Fuck we would if this was an all time rugby team, there'd barely be a player from another country selected.
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Maybe one on the bench for the sake of tokenism...

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="608588" data-time="1472005547">
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Me too and I seriously considered Martin Crowe and vaguely considered Danny and Kane.
 
Kumble was probably the next spinner off the rank, but he's a little way behind Saqlain.
 
Baz was in a battle with Andy Flower - since those picking the first and second elevens seemed to need to pick two keepers each - presumably because none of them were superb technicians and they might need someone to take over the gloves. :)
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It's pretty tough to substantiate but as a pure keeper surely before giving it away Baz was as good if not better than all of Gilly, Sanga, Dhoni and ABDV ? ( obviously overall batting isn't worth comparing )
 
I remember reading a sporting magazine a few years back that picked an all time Aus ODI team and both Gilly AND Healy made it which indicates to me the former wasn't the best gloveman. If I was picking Healy wouldn't have a shitshow.....

SidBarret

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="608543" data-time="1471996328">
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1- Too many Jaapies, Sid. :)
 
2- Usual problems of comparing across eras - in the 1980s 220 was a par score, these days it's 280 - so you probably need to knock at least 10 runs off today's top order batsmen's averages to compare them with batsmen in the 1980s. That's not entirely fair, because players today have simply got better at playing the game - Sir Viv would have to learn to play the ramp shot and the reverse sweep, or conversely today's batsmen would have to abandon them because they barely had helmets and visors when ODI cricket first kicked off.
 
3- On Amla - he's fashioned a superb record, but he doesn't scream "all time best" to me - a tier down as a very good player. To not put too fine a point on it, a team with two of the six best all time batsmen doesn't get knocked out by New Zealand in a World Cup semi.
 
4- On Pollock - well, he's probably part of the conversation, but for me Imram walks into the team ahead of both him and Kapil. Imran became a genuine specialist batsman as well as being a deadly bowler - Kapil more a bowler who could bat and hit massively - never had the genuine pace of Imran.
 
In fact, for the four great 80s allrounders I think most would rank them as bowlers: Hadlee, Imran, Kapil, Botham*; as batsmen Botham*, Imran, Kapil, Hadlee.
 
Botham comes with an asterisk because he really had two careers - the first where he was fucking good and the second where he was a bit shit, really - injuries and a bad attitude. Imran sort of did too, in that he converted himself from a deadly pace bowler to a middle order batsman. It's possible that Imran at his peak was a marginally better bowler than Hadlee at his peak - but Sir Paddles never really faded and should also be part of the conversation.
 
5- On Murali, a marginally better bowling record than Warne, but a significantly worse batsman. Applying the logic in selecting Pollock, you'd surely also select Warnie? 
 
Edit: Bevan warrants a place - he was phenomenal in his day.
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1- Guilty as charged
 
2- The way I have tried to look at it is by comparing players to their contemporaries, otherwise the you would end up with a batting line-up from 2010 and bowling line-up 1980. But it also makes it fun as every position becomes far more debatable. 
 
3- As disappointing as our WC record is and even with with point two above, you simply can't ignore the sheer weight of runs he has has scored. Look at this stat to get an idea of his run scoring record. As I said, I am not looking to select the best players, I am looking to select a team to play the game as it is being played today - <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.howstat.com.au/cricket/Statistics/Batting/BattingBestAfterXInnings_ODI.asp?Stat=1'>http://www.howstat.com.au/cricket/Statistics/Batting/BattingBestAfterXInnings_ODI.asp?Stat=1</a>
 
4- I am too young to have seen Kapil Dev or Kahn play so I am dependent on their records and accounts from people who did see them. In terms of Bowling record there is really nothing between them. In terms of average and strike rate Imran just shades Kapil Dev, while Kapil Dev has marginally better economy rate and much better aggregate numbers. Kapil Dev is selected for his batting role, in this team he would fulfill the role that Faulkner fulfilled for the Aussies in the last world cup of coming in an hitting 40 of 25 balls. In that role Kapil Dev is much much stronger Imran.
 
5- Murali bats at number 11, I don't think his batting makes a jot of difference. If you want to argue that Warne is a better player for his batting (his record is actually quite poor averaging 13 with the bat), then go ahead, but in this team he won't get in ahead of Wasim Akram as a bowler that can bat so has to make it as pure bowler, where as you say, Murali is better. Edit- Mustaq would actually be my next cab off the rank for the spinner spot, phenomenal record.

The Silver Fern

All Time ODI XI