Super Rugby 2024
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Nepia i think there is a middle ground too be found, international and Franchise/club are different things and should be markets as such, one doesnt need to be subservient to the other. if we can make the franchise game as popular as NRL and then the international game set in where we have State of Origin then we'd be onto something
Yeah, but many players often sit out club games during SoO season and this seems to be the main issue that people complain about when talking about the test player breaks in Super Rugby.
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i see it as a bit different as you can see what theyre doing, in football the lower leagues just carry on during international games and teams just have to live with it...which is different to players running water and telling people they would rather be playing like Nuggie did a few times
but we also dont need to have the international games during like SoO, i was more meaning international picks up the equivalent passion/interest/bandwidth
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
i see it as a bit different as you can see what theyre doing, in football the lower leagues just carry on during international games and teams just have to live with it...which is different to players running water and telling people they would rather be playing like Nuggie did a few times
but we also dont need to have the international games during like SoO, i was more meaning international picks up the equivalent passion/interest/bandwidth
I'll admit, I'm not sure of your point anymore.
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@Nepia you mentioned, if we try and compare super rugby with NRL, taking breaks and how that annoyed people, i kind of replied to the point and said i felt players not playing club games because theyre playing the next level up is a little different to the ABs that are just rested
BUT
my point before that wasn't about international games being the equivalent of SoO in the calendar (ie mid week)...but more in how we market them, as these huge spectacles players are genuinely honored to be selected for...rather than the internations being their main job and club game almost just to keep them fit
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@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Nepia i think there is a middle ground too be found, international and Franchise/club are different things and should be markets as such, one doesnt need to be subservient to the other. if we can make the franchise game as popular as NRL and then the international game set in where we have State of Origin then we'd be onto something
Yeah, but many players often sit out club games during SoO season and this seems to be the main issue that people complain about when talking about the test player breaks in Super Rugby.
come on you're better than that
Nathan Cleary isn't taking games off in April for SoO, he's taking the game off on the weekend after playing on Wednesday night. Actually the number of guys that front up on the weekend surprises me every year.
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@mariner4life given how punishing SoO can be!
an AB getting a rest in Feb or March....because they had a tough season the year before and might have another one ahead....is not the same as guys that take a sat off after a wed game
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Especially forwards. Actually even backs now with modern rugby league being built on tough early metres from your outside backs
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@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Nepia i think there is a middle ground too be found, international and Franchise/club are different things and should be markets as such, one doesnt need to be subservient to the other. if we can make the franchise game as popular as NRL and then the international game set in where we have State of Origin then we'd be onto something
Yeah, but many players often sit out club games during SoO season and this seems to be the main issue that people complain about when talking about the test player breaks in Super Rugby.
come on you're better than that
Nathan Cleary isn't taking games off in April for SoO, he's taking the game off on the weekend after playing on Wednesday night. Actually the number of guys that front up on the weekend surprises me every year.
The point is that big name players don't play all games, yet I'm constantly hearing complaints that one of the problems with SR is the big name players don't play all games.
Where they take a break really doesn't matter, they're still not playing all games.
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@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2024:
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Nepia i think there is a middle ground too be found, international and Franchise/club are different things and should be markets as such, one doesnt need to be subservient to the other. if we can make the franchise game as popular as NRL and then the international game set in where we have State of Origin then we'd be onto something
Yeah, but many players often sit out club games during SoO season and this seems to be the main issue that people complain about when talking about the test player breaks in Super Rugby.
come on you're better than that
Nathan Cleary isn't taking games off in April for SoO, he's taking the game off on the weekend after playing on Wednesday night. Actually the number of guys that front up on the weekend surprises me every year.
The point is that big name players don't play all games, yet I'm constantly hearing complaints that one of the problems with SR is the big name players don't play all games.
Where they take a break really doesn't matter, they're still not playing all games.
apples and oranges but you do you
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Nepia you mentioned, if we try and compare super rugby with NRL, taking breaks and how that annoyed people, i kind of replied to the point and said i felt players not playing club games because theyre playing the next level up is a little different to the ABs that are just rested
BUT
my point before that wasn't about international games being the equivalent of SoO in the calendar (ie mid week)...but more in how we market them, as these huge spectacles players are genuinely honored to be selected for...rather than the internations being their main job and club game almost just to keep them fit
I have no problem with your point about marketing SR, but I don't think the players have to play every game for the comp to be successful, in fact that requirement is problematic as every comp has injuries etc.
I know that I brought the league comparison in response to Winger, but I find it somewhat problematic that we're always comparing rugby to other sports, and how they operate, especially the NRL. They're similar sports, but not the be all and end all, rugby is a test focussed sport and the players union clearly think stand downs are needed for player welfare in "rugby" in the SH. I can handle the Chiefs AB's having the odd week off if it's better for their career longevity. It's not like we have weekends where all the top players are out.
@mariner4life Comparing rugby to NRL is apples and oranges too, but you do you too.
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@Nepia there are those that have said that, i had the same pointed out when ive suggested the top NPC playing super rugby..."but the the best players in the small unions might not play"
..but i hoestly think its very different to not seeing the play 3 days after we've just seen them light up the biggest stage
i think we HAVE to look at other sports....because there are very few successful rugby comps....and we are also talking about a huge overlap in market....so not looking at what
the same people are positively responding too in NRL....is just asking to keep failing -
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Nepia there are those that have said that, i had the same pointed out when ive suggested the top NPC playing super rugby..."but the the best players in the small unions might not play"
..but i hoestly think its very different to not seeing the play 3 days after we've just seen them light up the biggest stage
We're going to have to agree to disagree on that because players missing club/franchise games due to rep footy is the same to me whether in 3 days or due to a players agreement - they're still missing a match either way.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Nepia i think there is a middle ground too be found, international and Franchise/club are different things and should be markets as such, one doesnt need to be subservient to the other. if we can make the franchise game as popular as NRL and then the international game set in where we have State of Origin then we'd be onto something
Agree
But in my view it should be a SRP coaches decision. In the same way it will be 100% the ABs coaches decision. It must not be anything to do with the AB coaches. They can ask (but really shouldnt) but the SRP coaches can tell them OK but no can do.
Until this happens SRP will just be seen as a feeder to the more important test rugby. And the fans will mostly stay away
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@Nepia but didn't you just say up above that you dont think the best player should have to play every game?
are you arguing other peoples point?
@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2024:
I have no problem with your point about marketing SR, but I don't think the players have to play every game for the comp to be successful, in fact that requirement is problematic as every comp has injuries etc.
if you're not worried maybe let those that dont like it say so...because it might be different and not as black and white as you think
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@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2024:
Comparing rugby to NRL is apples and oranges too, but you do you too.
not when they are directly competing for the same eye balls it's not.
If i buy a ticket to watch say the Panthers v the Titans, i can be assured that, barring injury, i am watching Edwards, To'o, Cleary, Yeo, and JFH. So i will go
If i was thinking about buying a ticket to say, the Chiefs v the Crusaders, and the team was named without DMac and Finau, i'm saving my money. To me that is the difference.
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@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2024:
yet I'm constantly hearing complaints that one of the problems with SR is the big name players don't play all games.
Where. Most SR fans accept the need to rotate players. But it should be a SRP coaches decision not the AB coaches
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
i think we HAVE to look at other sports....because there are very few successful rugby comps....and we are also talking about a huge overlap in market....so not looking at what
the same people are positively responding too in NRL....is just asking to keep failingWe're in a boom time for the Warriors, would anyone who's ever followed them not agree that the chances of there being a bust are close to 100%?
But, even if remove the Warriors hype and look at the market itself, league is a sport dominated by a single club comp with a dollar investment that NZ rugby can never match so trying to emulate it will likely end in failure.
Like it or not, NZ rugby's bread and butter is the international game. We can't create an NRL, we can't even create a Top 14, we are reliant on the ABs to bring in revenue.
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this is all a bit moot though anyway, the initial point was just about club rugby trying to be successful in its own right and not purely as a feeder for the international game, @Nepia is the only one that brought up players having to be rested...and then argued people wouldnt like it
lets just assume no one is being rested (because that wasn't part of the announcement) and move on
@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
i think we HAVE to look at other sports....because there are very few successful rugby comps....and we are also talking about a huge overlap in market....so not looking at what
the same people are positively responding too in NRL....is just asking to keep failingWe're in a boom time for the Warriors, would anyone who's ever followed them not agree that the chances of there being a bust are close to 100%?
But, even if remove the Warriors hype and look at the market itself, league is a sport dominated by a single club comp with a dollar investment that NZ rugby can never match so trying to emulate it will likely end in failure.
Like it or not, NZ rugby's bread and butter is the international game. We can't create an NRL, we can't even create a Top 14, we are reliant on the ABs to bring in revenue.
thats quitter talk, i dont buy the we cant so lets not try....because the "cant" is subjective
rugby is an international game in ANZ because thats the way we've marketed it for the last 25 years and on top of that we've actively split the domestic game...and then chopped and changed it....none of that we cant at least look at changing
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Nepia but didn't you just say up above that you dont think the best player should have to play every game?
are you arguing other peoples point?
@Nepia said in Super Rugby 2024:
I have no problem with your point about marketing SR, but I don't think the players have to play every game for the comp to be successful, in fact that requirement is problematic as every comp has injuries etc.
if you're not worried maybe let those that dont like it say so...because it might be different and not as black and white as you think
I don't think every player has to play every game. I think you misinterpreted the post you replied to if you think I think differently.
I'm not stopping anyone from "saying so", I'm just arguing my perspective (I'm sitting at home with Covid that I caught in NZ so I have a little bit more time to argue than usual), just as you and @mariner4life are arguing yours while ganging up on me.
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@Nepia I'll admit, I'm not sure of your point anymore.
