The Current State of Rugby
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@antipodean said in The Current State of Rugby:
@canefan said in The Current State of Rugby:
I'll wait to see if they actually try to eliminate fake stoppages. That is one of my major gripes. If you fix the intentional slowing of the game, the bench/subs problems will probably go too, because loading the bench with forwards carries risk that they can't handle a faster game. But if they want to change that too, great
An easy way to eliminate fake stoppages is to simply not stop the game for someone who needs a breather or to tie up his boot again. Can't form a scrum because a prop has taken a knee? Take a quick tap or free kick to the other side.
Totally agree. Along with making injuries leave the field until the next available stoppage
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@antipodean said in The Current State of Rugby:
@canefan said in The Current State of Rugby:
I'll wait to see if they actually try to eliminate fake stoppages. That is one of my major gripes. If you fix the intentional slowing of the game, the bench/subs problems will probably go too, because loading the bench with forwards carries risk that they can't handle a faster game. But if they want to change that too, great
An easy way to eliminate fake stoppages is to simply not stop the game for someone who needs a breather or to tie up his boot again. Can't form a scrum because a prop has taken a knee? Take a quick tap or free kick to the other side.
agreed, ive said before with things like scrums, short time limit and if one team is formed up and ready when the other isn't, they get the ball and play on
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@Kiwiwomble said in The Current State of Rugby:
@antipodean is it? ive never seen it call out and not sure which law that would be under
For scrums, they just ned to apply it to rucks.
It would be even easier to deal with rucks if everyone had to stay on their feet. And not the Wayne Barnes selective interpretation either.
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absolutely zero chance props hitting the deck when it is time for a scrum will no longer stop play. THis isn't league where you just need 6 blokes of any position to form a scrum. Props and hookers are viewed as scrummaging specialists (hence the sub rules for them only). "in the interest of player safety..." is all it takes.
What they might be able to do is stop the other one, where it is lineout time. Take an knee at the point of the lineout? move the lineout. Hooker down? prop throws in.
But again, "player safety" will be the overriding caution.
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i saw a great old school France one the other day where the packs just wanted a stink so the 10 kicked the game off out on the full on purpose and the packs RAN to the "scrum" and stood a decent distance apart
Fanny of a ref didn't let it happen.
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@canefan said in The Current State of Rugby:
I'll wait to see if they actually try to eliminate fake stoppages. That is one of my major gripes. If you fix the intentional slowing of the game, the bench/subs problems will probably go too, because loading the bench with forwards carries risk that they can't handle a faster game. But if they want to change that too, great
This. The actual playing of the game is fine.
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@Duluth said in The Current State of Rugby:
@booboo said in The Current State of Rugby:
Not sure what the following achieves:
and for the ability to mark the ball inside the 22 from a restart
Seems to create a stoppage rather than making a team play out of their red zone. Eliminates the mid length kick off.
The standard kickoff is long with a winger sprinting to put pressure on. I miss the 10-20m kickoffs with locks competing to win the ball. That contest has gone from the game recently. By making long kickoffs easier to deal with, it moves the kickoff back into the competitive area of the field
Fair
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Just a thought – but wouldn’t it be fair to say that the majority of the "slowing down of the game" has been due to player safety? And the rules introduced there-after??
If we were to look at it…
Scrums - used to form up and into it in less than 5 seconds - yes a certain amount of slowing due to technical accuracy (players taking longer to get "set" to get technique and binds right) but also the introduction safety-wise of the ref calling crouch, touch, engage etc has slowed the game.
Again, was a form up and throw, especially before the advent of legalising lifting - and yes game has been slowed due to technical accuracy, not so much player safety.
Rucks - well they took away rucking for player safety, the melee of penalties and confusion that has followed because of this has been a difficulty in rugby ever since. More penalties = more set pieces = slower game.
Injuries - old school no replacements if you were injured. So layers would stay on (not good for them) or just get off the field if they got hurt. This was removed due to player safety, now it can take an age to get an injured player of the field and we all know a lot of players "fake" an injury to slow the game down.
Substitutes - used to be none, now the game is delayed in most cases to get them onto the field.
HIA assessments and smart mouthguards - need I say more.
High tackles - used to be a penalty or a card, now there's a frame-by-frame review of every high tackle.
Head knocks - used to be just an unfortunate part of the game, now a frame-by-frame review of every incident by the TMO.
Most of the things that slow the game down are due to measures introduced for the sake of player safety - not exactly "the rules" themselves.
Now I'm not saying that the game should be made inherently dangerous for the sake of our entertainment but it does appear that the safer we make the game the slower it gets (inadvertently or otherwise).
Having a safe game and a fast game would appear to be a contradiction (and a considerable one at that) unless we want to turn rugby into 7's or league...
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I think one way to speed up the game would be for the case of high tackles and head knocks the ref blows the penalty and the infringing palyer gets sent to the sideline immediatly while play continues.
The TMO can do their frame by frame decision making and decide if it's just a penalty (in whch case the player returns to the field) or if it's a card they go to the sin bin as per normal (time served from the moment the penalty is blown).
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@Windows97 said in The Current State of Rugby:
I think one way to speed up the game would be for the case of high tackles and head knocks the ref blows the penalty and the infringing palyer gets sent to the sideline immediatly while play continues.
It is incredibly stupid to send someone off for a head contact, yet the guy that got hit in the head, doesnt even get checked out.
There was a head contact in the 6N (was the Irish game I think) clearly didnt trigger the smart mouthguards (assume they are using them over there) and a lottery YC not upgraded, and neither player got an HIA check.
If they are serious about it, they need to look at that stupid aspect of it.
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@taniwharugby Ironicaly the easiest fix would be for both players to be sent off for HIA assesments immediately.
During that time the TMO can check to see if there's any need for a card.
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@antipodean said in The Current State of Rugby:
@canefan said in The Current State of Rugby:
I'll wait to see if they actually try to eliminate fake stoppages. That is one of my major gripes. If you fix the intentional slowing of the game, the bench/subs problems will probably go too, because loading the bench with forwards carries risk that they can't handle a faster game. But if they want to change that too, great
An easy way to eliminate fake stoppages is to simply not stop the game for someone who needs a breather or to tie up his boot again. Can't form a scrum because a prop has taken a knee? Take a quick tap or free kick to the other side.
I understand and don't disagree with the sentiment, however, you're ignoring how cynical rugby is these days - have a terrible scrum? Then concede a free kick by taking the knee.
I agree with speeding the game up but if scrums take too long to set then free kick once, penalty next IMO.
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@Duluth said in The Current State of Rugby:
@booboo said in The Current State of Rugby:
Not sure what the following achieves:
and for the ability to mark the ball inside the 22 from a restart
Seems to create a stoppage rather than making a team play out of their red zone. Eliminates the mid length kick off.
The standard kickoff is long with a winger sprinting to put pressure on. I miss the 10-20m kickoffs with locks competing to win the ball. That contest has gone from the game recently. By making long kickoffs easier to deal with, it moves the kickoff back into the competitive area of the field
this was exactly my reaction, it is trying to add an area of contest to the game and i'm all for it.
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@Bovidae said in The Current State of Rugby:
WR needs to get rid of the caterpillar ruck. Limit it to being able to add only one extra player to the ruck before the halfback kicks. I have liked that the ref have tried to enforce the 5 sec rule more strictly too.
I think it's probably simpler - "halfback" can't roll the ball more than a metre or maybe once ball has moved more than a metre from where the tackled player placed it, it's out.
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@Dodge said in The Current State of Rugby:
@antipodean said in The Current State of Rugby:
@canefan said in The Current State of Rugby:
I'll wait to see if they actually try to eliminate fake stoppages. That is one of my major gripes. If you fix the intentional slowing of the game, the bench/subs problems will probably go too, because loading the bench with forwards carries risk that they can't handle a faster game. But if they want to change that too, great
An easy way to eliminate fake stoppages is to simply not stop the game for someone who needs a breather or to tie up his boot again. Can't form a scrum because a prop has taken a knee? Take a quick tap or free kick to the other side.
I understand and don't disagree with the sentiment, however, you're ignoring how cynical rugby is these days - have a terrible scrum? Then concede a free kick by taking the knee.
In a game where possession matters, I think the benefits are outweighed by the negatives for the offending team. Especially if we implement this:
I agree with speeding the game up but if scrums take too long to set then free kick once, penalty next IMO.
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Possession matters? The Current world cup holders would strongly disagree
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I think of the greatest concern is the outlaw of the "croc roll"
Without this option, and with the current allowance of body height, and with the current interpretation of head contact in clean out, you can fuck the ruck up with one guy and leave 13 to defend, and your high odds to win that.
Attacking teams will do 1 of two things.
Play even less rugby in their own end
Be even more cynical about their front guy sealing off.Neither is good for the aesthetic
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@Bones said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Bovidae said in The Current State of Rugby:
WR needs to get rid of the caterpillar ruck. Limit it to being able to add only one extra player to the ruck before the halfback kicks. I have liked that the ref have tried to enforce the 5 sec rule more strictly too.
I think it's probably simpler - "halfback" can't roll the ball more than a metre or maybe once ball has moved more than a metre from where the tackled player placed it, it's out.
It’s even simpler than that. Just blow the existing penalty for the halfback being offside when he walks up the side of the ruck and plays the ball with his foot.
