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@Tim said in US Politics:
@Virgil There's been no evidence presented, but it's good to highlight when even the most committed dead-enders have to admit that. Just to lay it to rest. (Probably too optimistic a take.)
This is it. Too many nutcases focussing their energy on conspiracy theory bollocks instead of actually thinking about what's wrong and how to fix it - much easier to have a collective orgasm when Orange Donald yells "ultimate and absolute revenge".
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It cuts both ways. Mrs Meldrew has an American friend, a fellow writer, who wanted to know what Brits thought of the revelations that Republican-appointed US Supreme Court judges are actually controlled by a secret cabal of right-wing, Trump-aligned Dark Money financiers...
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@W32 said in US Politics:
I met a couple who honestly believed that Biden is an actor put in place by trump so that there won’t be civil war. This is what will cause the downfall of the USA.
Good attempt but it doesn't work like it did once.
Regarding Trump.
It's really not about Trump. Trumps rise is a result of the issues in the US and West. In a world of gutless, corrupt & pathetic leaders (NZ has some recently in Jacinda - WEF linked - and a nice but somewhat pathetic, man boy who somehow became PM).
Trump is just someone who gives people hope. That he won't be another poor leader. Or pathetic. Like Trudeau. And he did deliver in some areas. Like pulling out of this climate change - give us your money and give up your freedoms - stuff. He's also anti-war. Rare in the US or West.
edit. and he did try to close the borders.
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Real problems — rising prices, a crisis at the border, foreign policy challenges — often take a back seat to more lurid concerns.
..... a parade of Cassandras came on stage to bemoan, one after the other, the dire state of the nation — and to exalt in Trump’s commitment to saving the American people. They ranged from “concerned moms” warning about child abuse by elite paedophile rings, drag queens and transgender predators to former administration officials bashing “globalist elites” and the United Nations.
It does not matter that in reality, violent crime is falling in the US, America’s jails are not full of political prisoners, drag queens are not predators, Ukraine is an allied democracy and there is no evidence of election fraud: everywhere there is a deeply held belief among delegates that they must save the country, not only from Democrats, but also from the deep state (meaning the federal government), shadowy groups of international elitists and non-Trump-supporting Republicans such as the former vice-president Mike Pence.
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@Tim said in US Politics:
There's been no evidence presented,
Didn't the US Supreme Court stop this occurring
If the Supreme court heard both sides. Where both sides could make their case without threats of being sued. Then the public might have faith in the election process. Now a lot don't
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@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
It does not matter that in reality,
America’s jails are not full of political prisoners,
Ive never read that it is. But have that the jail rate per head is high in the US
drag queens are not predators,
never read that they are, That isn't the concern though
Ukraine is an allied democracy.
They have suspended elections. But democracy <> no issues
and there is no evidence of election fraud:
Did Bush win fairly vs Gore. But re 2020. Shame the Supreme Cort didn't take a case
everywhere there is a deeply held belief among delegates that they must save the country,
MAYBE LIKE
From endless wars
Maybe from WW3
From open borders
From climate change solutions
shipping jobs overseas
Huge Govt debt
etcnot only from Democrats, but also from the deep state (meaning the federal government), shadowy groups of international elitists and non-Trump-supporting Republicans such as the former vice-president Mike Pence.
One comment. So what if Trump supporters don't like Pence. That the nature of politics.There will be always be one or 2 that raise silly issues. But this applies to both sides
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@Kiwiwomble said in US Politics:
the fact people see this multi millionaire/billionaire with solid gold bathrooms and tv shows as anything but one of the "elite" is baffling
Whole swathes of the population have been left behind economically, abandoned and regarded as beyond the pale by mainstream politicians.
I guess charlatans like Orange Donald come across as a bit different and play to the crowd, selling them simplistic solutions and feeding their prejudices. Add in that Trump's detractors play his game and you can see the attraction.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
I guess charlatans like Orange Donald come across as a bit different and play to the crowd, selling them simplistic solutions and feeding their prejudices. Add in that Trump's detractors play his game and you can see the attraction.
He seems to be genuine on
Antiwar. This is enough by itself for me
Anti climate change. converting to zero carbon will destroy the West
Closed border
Energy changesThe above is enough.
But for those who are pro-war (as you seem to be). And believe all this climate change nonsense etc. Orange Trump is a charlatan.
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@W32 said in US Politics:
@Tim that’s what I used to think. Surely they will see reason and admit that the election wasn’t “stolen”. But they don’t. They double down. It’s nauseating .
Having a very corrupted Justice system (as the Trump fine clearly showed) doesn't help.
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@Winger said in US Politics:
He seems to be genuine on
Antiwar. This is enough by itself for me
Anti climate change. converting to zero carbon will destroy the West
Closed border
Energy changesThe above is enough.
But for those who are pro-war (as you seem to be). And believe all this climate change nonsense etc. Orange Trump is a charlatan.
Anti-war is great - it's not true but you'd be hard-pressed to find too many of Joe Public who are pro-war. And your climate change opinions, while utter nonsense, are well known so no surprise there. But I'm pretty sure you neither live in the US nor are you a citizen? Why would you care in the slightest about their border policy?
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
I guess charlatans like Orange Donald come across as a bit different and play to the crowd, selling them simplistic solutions and feeding their prejudices. Add in that Trump's detractors play his game and you can see the attraction.
He seems to be genuine on
Antiwar. This is enough by itself for me
Anti climate change. converting to zero carbon will destroy the West
Closed border
Energy changesThe above is enough.
But for those who are pro-war (as you seem to be). And believe all this climate change nonsense etc. Orange Trump is a charlatan.
Why are you anti war for the west but pro war for Putin?
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
I guess charlatans like Orange Donald come across as a bit different and play to the crowd, selling them simplistic solutions and feeding their prejudices. Add in that Trump's detractors play his game and you can see the attraction.
He seems to be genuine on
Antiwar. This is enough by itself for me
Anti climate change. converting to zero carbon will destroy the West
Closed border
Energy changesThis is why I'd vote for Trump. He's clear what he stands for, and I agree with enough of it to risk the fruitloop element of his personality. With the Dem's, it's quite clear that Biden is too old, which means we'd either be in a situation of an incapacitated president or an unknown string puller of a puppet. Given how much of the Dems want to focus on culture wars, I don't view this as a good thing.
But for those who are pro-war (as you seem to be). And believe all this climate change nonsense etc. Orange Trump is a charlatan.
I don't get this. There is irrefutable evident of climate change to at least some degree & VM doesn't seem overly pro-war to me.
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@reprobate said in US Politics:
Anti-war is great - it's not true but you'd be hard-pressed to find too many of Joe Public who are pro-war. And your climate change opinions, while utter nonsense, are well known so no surprise there. But I'm pretty sure you neither live in the US nor are you a citizen? Why would you care in the slightest about their border policy?
This is a forum for debating political issues, thus why Winger cares is not really a valid discussion point.
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@MajorRage said in US Politics:
There is irrefutable evident of climate change
This is for another thread.
But Trump accepts the science but not the money flowing to Gods know who.
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@Tim said in US Politics:
There's been no evidence presented,
Didn't the US Supreme Court stop this occurring
If the Supreme court heard both sides. Where both sides could make their case without threats of being sued. Then the public might have faith in the election process. Now a lot don't
No. The supreme court did not stop evidence from being presented. There wasn't any evidence. That's the point.
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@W32 said in US Politics:
@Tim that’s what I used to think. Surely they will see reason and admit that the election wasn’t “stolen”. But they don’t. They double down. It’s nauseating .
Having a very corrupted Justice system (as the Trump fine clearly showed) doesn't help.
Trump appointed 3 supreme court judges while in Office. The supreme court has more conservative (republican) judges than liberal (democrat)
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@MajorRage said in US Politics:
@Winger said in US Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
I guess charlatans like Orange Donald come across as a bit different and play to the crowd, selling them simplistic solutions and feeding their prejudices. Add in that Trump's detractors play his game and you can see the attraction.
He seems to be genuine on
Antiwar. This is enough by itself for me
Anti climate change. converting to zero carbon will destroy the West
Closed border
Energy changesThis is why I'd vote for Trump. He's clear what he stands for, and I agree with enough of it to risk the fruitloop element of his personality. With the Dem's, it's quite clear that Biden is too old, which means we'd either be in a situation of an incapacitated president or an unknown string puller of a puppet. Given how much of the Dems want to focus on culture wars, I don't view this as a good thing.
But for those who are pro-war (as you seem to be). And believe all this climate change nonsense etc. Orange Trump is a charlatan.
I don't get this. There is irrefutable evident of climate change to at least some degree & VM doesn't seem overly pro-war to me.
String puller puppet or supreme leader? The choice isn't great. I would argue that Trump increasingly surrounds himself with yes men. His cognition is also in serious decline.
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@MajorRage said in US Politics:
There is irrefutable evident of climate change
This is for another thread.
But Trump accepts the science but not the money flowing to Gods know who.
No. Trump doesn't accept the science. He accepts what is best for his agenda.
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Some interesting thoughts on replacing Biden. You sense a non-senile, articulate, moderate-sounding Dem candidate would do pretty well against an aging Orange Donald.
https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/4484546-progressives-plan-b-to-avoid-a-trump-biden-rematch/
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@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
Some interesting thoughts on replacing Biden. You sense a non-senile, articulate, moderate-sounding Dem candidate would do pretty well against an aging found liable for rape, 4 times indicted, 91 felony facing insurrectionist Orange Donald.
https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/4484546-progressives-plan-b-to-avoid-a-trump-biden-rematch/
You missed s few bits out of Trumps description.
Aging politicians who outstay their usefulness seems ingrained in American Politics at the moment.
They dont seem willing to let go of power.
Just look how many 80+ year olds are elected lawmakers. Dianne Feinstein who died late last year was over 90!
US Politics