Quality of rugby media - TV Shows etc
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@Bovidae it's the same bullshit week in and week out. It's 90% Wilson and Kirwan talking over each other while Kirsty and Mils sit there awkwardly. I much prefer Ross Karl, Bryn Hall and James Parsons' authentic and natural view on the game.
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I loved rugby 1040 (I think it was) was just 2 normal blokes that would really dive into the analysis of the game and deliver quite a few insights into the patterns and systems that the teams were using that you wouldn't normally pick up from normally watching the game.
All the other "analysis" on rugby shows seems to be simply the opinion of ex players with a few basic stats thrown in...
I mean I get that type of analysis on the fern, no point watching it all over again on TV.
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@Windows97 said in Super Rugby 2024:
I loved rugby 1040 (I think it was) was just 2 normal blokes that would really dive into the analysis of the game and deliver quite a few insights into the patterns and systems that the teams were using that you wouldn't normally pick up from normally watching the game.
All the other "analysis" on rugby shows seems to be simply the opinion of ex players with a few basic stats thrown in...
I mean I get that type of analysis on the fern, no point watching it all over again on TV.
I found them really annoying and despite all the smoke and mirrors, don't think their analysis actually amounted to much.
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@Bones said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Windows97 said in Super Rugby 2024:
I loved rugby 1040 (I think it was) was just 2 normal blokes that would really dive into the analysis of the game and deliver quite a few insights into the patterns and systems that the teams were using that you wouldn't normally pick up from normally watching the game.
All the other "analysis" on rugby shows seems to be simply the opinion of ex players with a few basic stats thrown in...
I mean I get that type of analysis on the fern, no point watching it all over again on TV.
I found them really annoying and despite all the smoke and mirrors, don't think their analysis actually amounted to much.
At least the tried to analyse, backed up with numbers, rather than just give opinions. Squidge is the same, lots don't like it, same maybe you think the analysis is wrong. But I'd rather that, than old players spouting feelings based opinion on everything
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@Bones said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Machpants squidge seems pretty decent to me, go figure.
Yeah I like them both 1014 and Squidge 'cos at least they are trying to look beyond the stuff we generally get from Sky, BOMFA level analysis
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@Machpants said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Bones said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Machpants squidge seems pretty decent to me, go figure.
Yeah I like them both 1014 and Squidge 'cos at least they are trying to look beyond the stuff we generally get from Sky, BOMFA level analysis
Exactly that, I much prefer a discussion that makes me think rather than being told by the same ex-players that had been on the same ex-shows for years on end what I should be thinking.
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@Machpants said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Bones said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Machpants squidge seems pretty decent to me, go figure.
Yeah I like them both 1014 and Squidge 'cos at least they are trying to look beyond the stuff we generally get from Sky, BOMFA level analysis
The rugby ecosystem is abysmal.
Where are the fan apps to keep information flowing? Where's the injured players list? Where are the ex-coaches analysts and players talkign about what's happening on the field? I've been in NFL for the last couple of years, and the analysis is light years ahead of rugby.
This is a forum of rugby nerds, but basically no-one watches any of the shows. They are all 'magazine' style- glossy, with superficial analysis. I keep comign back to JK; love him as a human being, but FFS his analysis is 'the boys will reallyb e up for it this week'. It's abysmal. And they're all petrified of saying anything mildly critical of NZR, so the whole thing is a total waste of time.
Edit: as others said, at least 1014 and Squdge try to dig into what's happening a bit. They weren't/aren't perfect, but a damn sight better than the bollocks we get served up regularly.
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@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2024:
This is a forum of rugby nerds, but basically no-one watches any of the shows. They are all 'magazine' style- glossy, with superficial analysis. I keep comign back to JK; love him as a human being, but FFS his analysis is 'the boys will reallyb e up for it this week'. It's abysmal. And they're all petrified of saying anything mildly critical of NZR, so the whole thing is a total waste of time.
I think many of us (including myself) now watch the Aotearoa Rugby Pod. If you haven't watched it, give it a crack. The Breakdown is well passed its used by date, whereas the ARP is a refreshing show that focuses solely on the games, aswell as interviewing players for their insights. As mentioned earlier in this thread it's definitely nice to have a show that isn't Wilson and Kirwan bitching at each other every two secs.
You can view the latest show below:
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@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2024:
The rugby ecosystem is abysmal.
Where are the fan apps to keep information flowing? Where's the injured players list? Where are the ex-coaches analysts and players talkign about what's happening on the field? I've been in NFL for the last couple of years, and the analysis is light years ahead of rugby.
This is a forum of rugby nerds, but basically no-one watches any of the shows.
The slight exception being Aotearoa rugby pod. Sometimes they offer a bit more depth, sometimes not (Hall never criticises anyone)
But yes the eco system is terrible. Sky is constantly on a quest for new fans and they make ham fisted attempts to appeal to younger fans and woman. Meanwhile the core fans are taken for granted
I don't mind having shows appealing to different tiers. There is a place for a show for casual fans, it's just not for people who post on TSF. However an analysis/tactics show that gave the viewers more credit would be great.. it doesn't need huge production values.
Interviews with people like Robertson/Robinson etc shouldn't be exclusive to the Breakdown either. Sometimes have a more in depth format.. give the fans some info. Every time Robertson was about to say something vaguely interesting in the last Breakdown interview he got interrupted
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@nzzp said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Machpants said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Bones said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Machpants squidge seems pretty decent to me, go figure.
Yeah I like them both 1014 and Squidge 'cos at least they are trying to look beyond the stuff we generally get from Sky, BOMFA level analysis
The rugby ecosystem is abysmal.
Where are the fan apps to keep information flowing? Where's the injured players list? Where are the ex-coaches analysts and players talkign about what's happening on the field? I've been in NFL for the last couple of years, and the analysis is light years ahead of rugby.
This is a forum of rugby nerds, but basically no-one watches any of the shows. They are all 'magazine' style- glossy, with superficial analysis. I keep comign back to JK; love him as a human being, but FFS his analysis is 'the boys will reallyb e up for it this week'. It's abysmal. And they're all petrified of saying anything mildly critical of NZR, so the whole thing is a total waste of time.
Edit: as others said, at least 1014 and Squdge try to dig into what's happening a bit. They weren't/aren't perfect, but a damn sight better than the bollocks we get served up regularly.
I understand where your coming from, what I admire about the American shows is that they can package the stats and analytics into a format where it's easy to understand.
The NFL play by play example where they can highlight what the offensive team is trying to do, what the defensive team is trying to use to counter and what the actual result of the play was i.e. did the offence come up with a play that outsmarted the defense? Or did the defense get it wrong and have their players in the wrong place? Or were the systems matched but a player made an error that the defense or offence just capitalized on.
I'm a very casual observer of the NFL, but I appreciate the pains they go to, to do the analysis and package it in an understandable format. I can understand what's going on even if I don't know all of the rules
(and doesn't rugby need that right now given the shambolic state the rules are in).Of course you could say that the NFL has an easier format which is true, but anyone who understands rugby knows that even at club level and below teams have offensive and defensive patterns. Teams have tactics to create space or go forward and defensive systems to shut down space and go forward.
No-one in terms of rugby shows seems interested in trying to analyze or explain that, the 1014 show at least tried and no they probably weren't right 100% of the time but at least they made the effort.
I'd just love for there to be a show where a couple of ex-coach's would sit down and review the game of the day from a tactics and systems viewpoint and explained that to the viewer. It not like there aren't people gainfully employed in rugby right now doing this exact same thing day and day out. So it's not like it can't be done, there's just no intent.
And I appreciate the powers that be would see such as show as a risk , hence they settle for bland low-risk magazine style shows.
If rugby wants to get in new fans then why not take a leaf out of the American sports model and cater for the nerds? I'm sure there's a whole lot of fans in say baseball who probably couldn't swing a bat but just love the statistical goldmine that the sport of baseball is, that's a whole segment of the population that rugby doesn't even bother to try and engage with.
Make rugby a little bit less about big bodies and personalities bashing into each other and a little more cerebral.
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D Duluth referenced this topic on
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And apologies for yet another tangent especially after poor Duluth split this tread already
But one of the issues I have with rugby in regards to how it promotes "the game" is that it's promoted as fun and entertaining and about mate ship/team work and passion (all of which are great things) but there's very little effort is put into promoting the intellectual aspect of the game.
It's great pity because there's lots of smart people in rugby, the thought that goes into developing attacking and defensive systems is really impressive. As a rugby community I think we kinda miss a bit of a trick here.
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