Ukraine
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@delicatessen said in Ukraine:
a troll, a man who can't admit he's wrong, or incredibly, unfortunately unintelligent
Two points:
- I question your use of "or"
- Would be an interesting Venn diagramme
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Ukraine:
The difference between Muldoon and Putin is Putin is smarter,
I'd argue Bill Rowling not mysteriously falling out of a window might have a teeny-weeny bit to do with it.....
Prescient post (i.e., Navalny).
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Navalny
Why would Russia do this. And it just happened after Putin's interview
Several pro-government figures have insinuated it is the West or Russian opposition, rather than President Vladimir Putin, who stand to benefit from the sudden death of Putin's most prominent critic in Russia.
Margarita Simonyan, editor-in-chief of state international broadcaster RT, was quick to ridicule Western reaction.
"I won't even begin to explain to them that everyone has long forgotten [Navalny], that there was no point in killing him, especially before the elections, that it would be beneficial to completely opposite forces," she said.
President Putin is expected to be re-elected next month for a fifth presidential term, having cracked down on opponents.
Channel One presenter Anatoly Kuzichev also claimed Navalny had been "safely forgotten even by his associates", and speculated that his death may have been "an accident" or perhaps an act of "terrible sabotage".
In a similar vein, Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova suggested there was something "self-revealing" about the swiftness of Western leaders' response.
"There has been no forensic examination yet, but the West's conclusions are ready," she said.
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@delicatessen said in Ukraine:
a troll, a man who can't admit he's wrong, or incredibly, unfortunately unintelligent
Two points:
- I question your use of "or"
- Would be an interesting Venn diagramme
Name calling like this is childish behaviour booboo.
Fair call. I withdraw and apologise.
I have a viewpoint that's different to you. My view is the EU is undemocratic. **And Russia is democratic.**This is just a fact. Putin is elected. The EU commissioners are appointed. It's not a perfect democracy. Far from it. But nor is the West.
But the brainwashed and those unable to think for themselves can't see this. But change is happening. The world is waking up. As the West destroys itself.
The truth is I think people like you are gullible, naive, stupid clowns who are largely responsible collectively for the decline of the West, and the ugliness as they do it. But so-what? It's just one man's opinion vs another one. It means f++k all as we fill in time before we all die. Maybe sooner than later if the warmongering elite have their way
And I'll await the same courtesy.
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I'm curious. Does Winger really believe Putin is elected in a democratic election and the results aren't coerced or partially rigged?
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@nostrildamus said in Ukraine:
I'm curious. Does Winger really believe Putin is elected in a democratic election and the results aren't coerced or partially rigged?
I don't know. But I certainly would trust anything about this subject in the elite controlled Western media. Nothing at all. Western media just lie nonstop. They get caught out but then change for a short spell and then go back to lying again.
And Ukraine have suspended elections. Is this a democracy? or a flawed democracy
What about the US? They are trying to throw Trump into prison. or remove him from the ballot. They imprisoned his supporters on dubious charges. They ban groups on social media. Do I believe Biden got millions more votes than Obama when he was clearly gone before the election. No. Do I believe then they closed down the last election that funny stuff didn't go down. No. Yet the Western media point the finger at Russia
I could go on. Included about the 'democratic' EU where the Govt is appointed not elected.
I can also understand why Putin has done what he's done. He took control of SOME of the media when he first came to power. Now he has strengthened this control. Any smart leader would do the same. Especially after awful communism and Yeltsin. Putin, I believe, wants to make Russia great again. He can't do this with an out-of-control media. And would the people supoort a leader like Putin. Yes, esp when he has the media behind him. So, a flawed democracy. Just like much of the West.
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God it so obvious. Why do Westerners fall for it? As children and women are being slaughtered with Western weapons. And what about Julian Assange?
Meanwhile, an international relations expert hopes the death of Navalny will spur New Zealand to do more to support Ukraine in their war with Russia.
Otago University professor Robert Patman said while New Zealand has given humanitarian aid and some military assistance to Ukraine, other Western allies had done more.
"We haven't matched the sort of support that Australia and Canada have been giving to Ukraine, and make no mistake about it, a non-nuclear, liberal democracy like New Zealand has a huge stake in making sure that a non-nuclear liberal democracy in Ukraine does not succumb to an illegal invasion from an authoritarian neighbour," he said.
And here's another pointless slaughter. Just sacrificing good mostly young men. On both sides. But let's help them so more younger (or not so young now) men can be slaughtered
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@reprobate said in Ukraine:
Winger, there wouldn't be young men being slaughtered if Putin hadn't invaded Ukraine.
It's kinda that simple mate.What do you think would happen if Russia invited Mexico (who just happened to have a pro-Russian Govt) to join them in a military arrangement. After Russia had promised the US they wouldn't do this
And if Mexico were killing people in Mexico who identified as US etc.
You know what they US would do
All the West had to do was comply (or instruct Ukraine to comply) with the Minsk agreement. That Merkel said they never had any intention of doing it seems
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Fair call. I withdraw and apologise.
I didn't ask you to apologize. All you had to do was remove your post. As I did mine. It's a good TSF rule so why not comply with it? Instead of cluttering up this thread (a good thread so far) with this stuff
I didn't ask you to delete your post.
Deleting a post everybody has already read, that nobody is going back to check if it's deleted, and not telling anyone, including the poster in question, doesn't achieve anything
I'm good with an apology on record in lieu of a stealth deletion. But you do you.
I'm happy to leave it at that. Let's get back to justifying the war.
Edit: PS I appreciate your effort.
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What do you think would happen if Russia invited Mexico (who just happened to have a pro-Russian Govt) to join them in a military arrangement. After Russia had promised the US they wouldn't do this
That would never happen. Russia is a glowing example of a peace-loving, true democracy while the US is a corrupt, capitalist state run by rich, lying elites propped up by a lying media and populated by stupid people. That's correct isn't it?
You know what they US would do
Kidnap thousands of Mexicans and take them to the US? That would be the ultimate war crime. Imagine the sense of sheer horror a Mexican would have at the thought of living in the US!
All the West had to do was comply (or instruct Ukraine to comply) with the Minsk agreement.
Those evil, western capitalist imperialists! Fancy allowing those uppity Ukrainians to decide their foreign policy for for themselves.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Ukraine:
Fancy allowing those uppity Ukrainians to decide their foreign policy for for themselves.
Of course they do
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All the West had to do was comply (or instruct Ukraine to comply) with the Minsk agreement. That Merkel said they never had any intention of doing it seems
The MInsk agreements were between Ukraine and Russia and not with the West or Merkel's Germany. You'd have to be gullible in the extreme to expect any country to comply with an agreement they weren't signatories to.
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@nostrildamus said in Ukraine:
I'm curious. Does Winger really believe Putin is elected in a democratic election and the results aren't coerced or partially rigged?
I don't know. But I certainly would trust anything about this subject in the elite controlled Western media. Nothing at all. Western media just lie nonstop. They get caught out but then change for a short spell and then go back to lying again.
And Ukraine have suspended elections. Is this a democracy? or a flawed democracy
What about the US? They are trying to throw Trump into prison. or remove him from the ballot. They imprisoned his supporters on dubious charges. They ban groups on social media. Do I believe Biden got millions more votes than Obama when he was clearly gone before the election. No. Do I believe then they closed down the last election that funny stuff didn't go down. No. Yet the Western media point the finger at Russia
I could go on. Included about the 'democratic' EU where the Govt is appointed not elected.
I can also understand why Putin has done what he's done. He took control of SOME of the media when he first came to power. Now he has strengthened this control. Any smart leader would do the same. Especially after awful communism and Yeltsin. Putin, I believe, wants to make Russia great again. He can't do this with an out-of-control media. And would the people supoort a leader like Putin. Yes, esp when he has the media behind him. So, a flawed democracy. Just like much of the West.
Putin increased his control of the media.
Western powers increased their control of the media?
So it is smart if Putin does it but not the West?As to Trump, that is OT, definitely. He has his own social media (still running I believe and on the edge of a big merger?) and a YouTube channel (https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-64993603) and he is in the West so by your logic one shouldn't believe him or his supporters.
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Margarita Simonyan, editor-in-chief of state international broadcaster RT, was quick to ridicule Western reaction.
"I won't even begin to explain to them that everyone has long forgotten [Navalny], that there was no point in killing him, especially before the elections, that it would be beneficial to completely opposite forces," she said.
Sounds like an explanation (good or bad) to me.
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[mod edit]removed the response to off topic posts[/edit]
Anyway back to the Ukraine.
Seems Russia can't force a military victory - which is somewhat embarrassing, still it's not like the Ukraine can either.
And it seems the West can't cripple Russia economically.
End result is that just a lot of people are going to die, unless someone can start negotiating or "the west" intervenes militarily. Yet neither of those appear to be options.