Lincoln McClutchie - 16th best 1st 5
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@Nepia I was going to start a devil's advocate/speculative thread about what's next for the NZ tens in and outside Super Rugby (with Lincoln being one), but this news is such a gut punch that I no longer see the point. Seems like he was holding out for a Super offer that didn't materialize.
At times like this that I circle back to the idea of the incoming ABs coach having a bit more say in: (i) which players in certain positions with a huge number of contenders (e.g. 10, 12, 13) get super contracts (ii) how evenly talent in those positions with a huge number of contenders (e.g. 10, 12, 13) are spread across super franchises. Of course, this would be limited to the first post-RWC season only. And of course, super coaches should be permitted to tell him to stfu "BC my team, my gameplan, my selections." But at least players would get a hint Ito the type of player the ABs are likely to pick quite early and can make timely career choices (go abroad) if they are not rated by the ABs chief. Will never happen, but...
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Yet, you, and others, are holding his performances as a back up 10 to the captain in the worst team in Super Rugby as a reason for his non selection
Any news on why he turned up for super season last year looking like he'd eaten everyone's Xmas dinner?
I can't say I remember him looking fat, I clearly wasn't checking him out as much as you.
I can only assume he looked at Morgan and decided that was a look that helped your career in NZ so decided to give it a shot too.
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@Nepia you're probably used to seeing him, what with printing out fresh posters daily. I hadn't seen him in months so was surprised to see the extra chins.
Is Morgan fat too now?
Like @Nepia I cannot recall him being fat from eating everyone's Christmas dinners when he turned up for Super Rugby, especially as super rugby training starts in late November/early December. Obviously I bow to your superior knowledge of the situation and would be delighted if you could post photos of said extra chins so I can have something to hold against him if needed.
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@Nepia you're probably used to seeing him, what with printing out fresh posters daily. I hadn't seen him in months so was surprised to see the extra chins.
Is Morgan fat too now?
Like @Nepia I cannot recall him being fat from eating everyone's Christmas dinners when he turned up for Super Rugby, especially as super rugby training starts in late November/early December. Obviously I bow to your superior knowledge of the situation and would be delighted if you could post photos of said extra chins so I can have something to hold against him if needed.
I have no opinion on the guy either way, but I remember him looking a bit portly. Maybe portly is normal for him?
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@bobily2 Good for him, but NZR can go fuck itself. It's criminal he doesn't have a Super contract.
Well isn't it the super teams that don't want him? Not the NZR. He just seems to be one who is not quite there to me, I don't think he set the world on fire for MP, and can't really think of real compelling reason for him to take any of the 10's places in any super teams. Not sure he llooks to have the improvement in his game to be a starting No 10 at this level. I think the fact that noone in Japan etc didn't pick him up with better money speaks volumes.
Do you truly believe there are 15 better 10s than him in NZ rugby? If you don't then clearly there is a systemic issue and NZR is to blame for. It's not like this only applies to McClutchie, hell it was happening as far back as when Mark Robinson, an AB halfback, couldn't get a Super spot when he was clearly deserving.
A compelling reason might be that he was probably the best 10 in the NPC this year. Yet, you, and others, are holding his performances as a back up 10 to the captain in the worst team in Super Rugby as a reason for his non selection, while at the same time absolving poor performances of players playing a level down to justify their selection over him at Super Rugby. It makes little sense.
As for Japan, maybe every team already had their 10s, not being selected in those squads isn't a pointer of anything really.
You got me wrong Napie, I not saying there 15 better 10s, but I am saying the coaches of the teams know what they want etc, and generally have at least one 10 spot for a young one. It is also to be noted that MP didn't chose to renew his contract, and even with them last year it seemed that Leilafano was preferred 10 (and not just because Lilo was captain as he also could play 12 and if Link had a strong case they could of moved Lilo out one), and I not sure even he would be offered a contract with any other NZ team? I find it hard ro swallow that we would know more than the 5 franchises what they want or need as players.
I just genuine think Lincoln is a bloody good NPC player, and quite good super player, but he has known he was out of contract since early in year and sure his manager has been shopping him around (or should of been) and seem noone else in NZ (or probably Japan) wanted him?I think you will find Sharkey Robinson was offered super contract, but chose to head back to Europe where he had lived for a few years with his parents when he a teenager. I actually know his dad and family.
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@Nepia I'm shocked and stunned you didn't notice it about McClutchie, yet did about Morgan.
That's because he's always been fairly chunky/solid - you're the one spotting the extra extra chins.
Lol calling Morgan fat is like calling Ben Tameifuna skinny. Classic.
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@Canes4life Neither of them are fat. Both are just short and have a slightly stocky build. Nothing wrong with that.
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This post is deleted!
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MP didn't chose to renew his contract
There are lots and lots of players who chose to not re-sign with MP. If that group is so big, there must have been good reasons for that and it's why MP has so many new players (many of them nobodies). Doesn't mean MP didn't want them. He might just be one of them.
it seemed that Leilafano was preferred 10 (and not just because Lilo was captain as he also could play 12 and if Link had a strong case they could of moved Lilo out one)
Leaili'ifano is a good and experienced test 10. They didn't move him out to 12 (apart from approx 2 occasions when the reserve 10 came on) because they had players like Toala, Aumua, Taefu etc who are better at 12.
and I not sure even he would be offered a contract with any other NZ team?
seem noone else in NZ (or probably Japan) wanted him?
Geez, genius comment, nobody in NZ wanted him. That's exactly what our criticism is about! A 10, the top points scorer of the 2023 NPC, who is hugely influential in his NPC team, creates a lot of the scoring opportunities for his team, is well-liked, and steered his team to their best NPC performance of the modern NPC didn't get a NZ SR contract. It's just madness if you look at who (several far lesser players) actually do have a contract.
About Japan, that's just speculation.
he has known he was out of contract since early in year
So all players should abandon any hope of playing SR during the NPC? Especially players who have already played SR? Then how come some rookies who didn't set the NPC on fire get contracts? By playing local club rugby?
I find it hard ro swallow that we would know more than the 5 franchises what they want or need as players.
That's such a discussion killing comment. We criticise signings and selections all the time. Should we just lock the Fern and no longer question the decisions of coaches, other decision-makers and franchises?
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I'll get shot down for this, but think Bay fans have rose-tinted glasses with McClutchie. Is he the second coming of christ? No.
Is he a handy player to have in your squad? Maybe, but I challenge you to show me where the gaps were in the squads that make him a good option...
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A cat fight over a who’s who of fringe rugby players I’ve mostly never heard off. The exodus thread in recent times.
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@Stargazer said in Exodus:
MP didn't chose to renew his contract
There are lots and lots of players who chose to not re-sign with MP. If that group is so big, there must have been good reasons for that and it's why MP has so many new players (many of them nobodies). Doesn't mean MP didn't want them. He might just be one of them.
it seemed that Leilafano was preferred 10 (and not just because Lilo was captain as he also could play 12 and if Link had a strong case they could of moved Lilo out one)
Leaili'ifano is a good and experienced test 10. They didn't move him out to 12 (apart from approx 2 occasions when the reserve 10 came on) because they had players like Toala, Aumua, Taefu etc who are better at 12.
and I not sure even he would be offered a contract with any other NZ team?
seem noone else in NZ (or probably Japan) wanted him?
Geez, genius comment, nobody in NZ wanted him. That's exactly what our criticism is about! A 10, the top points scorer of the 2023 NPC, who is hugely influential in his NPC team, creates a lot of the scoring opportunities for his team, is well-liked, and steered his team to their best NPC performance of the modern NPC didn't get a NZ SR contract. It's just madness if you look at who (several far lesser players) actually do have a contract.
About Japan, that's just speculation.
he has known he was out of contract since early in year
So all players should abandon any hope of playing SR during the NPC? Especially players who have already played SR? Then how come some rookies who didn't set the NPC on fire get contracts? By playing local club rugby?
I find it hard ro swallow that we would know more than the 5 franchises what they want or need as players.
That's such a discussion killing comment. We criticise signings and selections all the time. Should we just lock the Fern and no longer question the decisions of coaches, other decision-makers and franchises?
I actually oriignally replied when Nepia said he held it against NZR for hin not getting contract, and I pointed out it was the 5 super rugby teams that didn't want him. And if as you say he left MP because they weren't good enough (which I doubt anyway) he or his manager were very very stupid to do it without him having somewhere else to go I still say if all super teams in NZ didn't have a spot for him, and I would assume noone from Aus offered him one, noone from Japan or NH, and that is not what I meant about why he hasn't got a contract, noone said it couldn't be discussed.
"> So all players should abandon any hope of playing SR during the NPC? Especially players who have already played SR? Then how come some rookies who didn't set the NPC on fire get contracts? By playing local club rugby?"
That would make sense but vhe signed for San Diego in August.....you know BEFORE NPC was even been played for him to show wares?I not against McLutchie in anyway, always been a fan of him at NPC, simply saying there too much evidence to suggest he is not really quite up to level of super for him to be seen as a huge loss, or anyone failed in not signing him.
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@Canes4life said in Exodus:
@Nepia I'm shocked and stunned you didn't notice it about McClutchie, yet did about Morgan.
That's because he's always been fairly chunky/solid - you're the one spotting the extra extra chins.
Lol calling Morgan fat is like calling Ben Tameifuna skinny. Classic.
Well I didn't actually call him fat, he does have a chunky body shape though which @Stargazer pointed out, so that was somewhat relevant to the debate at hand.
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And if as you say he left MP because they weren't good enough (which I doubt anyway)
The many players who didn't re-sign with MP didn't just do that because the franchise wasn't good enough. There were other issues with that club that kept them from returning to the club. Why do you think it was only about the franchise's performance? No one has said that.
That would make sense but vhe signed for San Diego in August.....you know BEFORE NPC was even been played for him to show wares?
Where does it say he signed with San Diego in August?
there too much evidence to suggest he is not really quite up to level of super for him to be seen as a huge loss, or anyone failed in not signing him.
I haven't seen any convincing evidence at all. The fact that arguably one of the best 10s of the NPC is overlooked for a contract, while lesser players are signed, is evidence that the selection and contracting process needs improving.
