The Current State of Rugby
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@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
@sparky said in The Current State of Rugby:
It’s become a fucking joke of a sport.
the inconsistency and lottery week to week does my head. Played well, the best sport in the world, but there's a reason I've fallen out of love with professional rugby. It's on display tonight. Was on display with Ireland series last year.
I am afraid I don’t love it any more.
I’ll be back for the 6 Nations and the Super season, but I have nothing like the enthusiasm for the sport that I once did. I suspect many others feel the same.
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@sparky said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
@sparky said in The Current State of Rugby:
It’s become a fucking joke of a sport.
the inconsistency and lottery week to week does my head. Played well, the best sport in the world, but there's a reason I've fallen out of love with professional rugby. It's on display tonight. Was on display with Ireland series last year.
I am afraid I don’t love it any more.
I’ll be back for the 6 Nations and the Super season, but I have nothing like the enthusiasm for the sport that I once did. I suspect many others feel the same.
Yes,but a lot of that is all about growing up and realising it’s not the be all and end all.
The refereeing certainly does not help though.
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@canefan said in The Current State of Rugby:
Watch that game. Then watch the NRL grand final. It's chalk and cheese, and the Panthers Broncos game was the Camembert
As a spectacle or reffing? Because that was a damn good game of rugby for fans of rugby (maybe not for league fans).
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@Nepia said in The Current State of Rugby:
@canefan said in The Current State of Rugby:
Watch that game. Then watch the NRL grand final. It's chalk and cheese, and the Panthers Broncos game was the Camembert
As a spectacle or reffing? Because that was a damn good game of rugby for fans of rugby (maybe not for league fans).
It was close. But the TMO and ref ruined the game and spoiled the flow. All hopes that Barnes would stop the rest breaks were dashed. It moved so slowly for a long spell of the second half. NRL was just dynamic
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@MN5 said in The Current State of Rugby:
@sparky said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
@sparky said in The Current State of Rugby:
It’s become a fucking joke of a sport.
the inconsistency and lottery week to week does my head. Played well, the best sport in the world, but there's a reason I've fallen out of love with professional rugby. It's on display tonight. Was on display with Ireland series last year.
I am afraid I don’t love it any more.
I’ll be back for the 6 Nations and the Super season, but I have nothing like the enthusiasm for the sport that I once did. I suspect many others feel the same.
Yes,but a lot of that is all about growing up and realising it’s not the be all and end all.
The refereeing certainly does not help though.
I think it comes down to where you are in life as you've pointed out.
Before Wallabies games I could barely eat, and felt nauseous. I'd shout at the TV etc etc
Who has the energy for that any more?
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@NTA said in The Current State of Rugby:
@MN5 said in The Current State of Rugby:
@sparky said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
@sparky said in The Current State of Rugby:
It’s become a fucking joke of a sport.
the inconsistency and lottery week to week does my head. Played well, the best sport in the world, but there's a reason I've fallen out of love with professional rugby. It's on display tonight. Was on display with Ireland series last year.
I am afraid I don’t love it any more.
I’ll be back for the 6 Nations and the Super season, but I have nothing like the enthusiasm for the sport that I once did. I suspect many others feel the same.
Yes,but a lot of that is all about growing up and realising it’s not the be all and end all.
The refereeing certainly does not help though.
I think it comes down to where you are in life as you've pointed out.
Before Wallabies games I could barely eat, and felt nauseous. I'd shout at the TV etc etc
Who has the energy for that any more?
Not the Wallabies!
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@NTA said in The Current State of Rugby:
@MN5 said in The Current State of Rugby:
@sparky said in The Current State of Rugby:
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
@sparky said in The Current State of Rugby:
It’s become a fucking joke of a sport.
the inconsistency and lottery week to week does my head. Played well, the best sport in the world, but there's a reason I've fallen out of love with professional rugby. It's on display tonight. Was on display with Ireland series last year.
I am afraid I don’t love it any more.
I’ll be back for the 6 Nations and the Super season, but I have nothing like the enthusiasm for the sport that I once did. I suspect many others feel the same.
Yes,but a lot of that is all about growing up and realising it’s not the be all and end all.
The refereeing certainly does not help though.
I think it comes down to where you are in life as you've pointed out.
**Before Wallabies games I could barely eat, and felt nauseous. I'd shout at the TV etc etc
Who has the energy for that any more?**
Not you cos it sounds like you won’t have eaten for awhile
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The game at the top level is a contest, but it’s not prioritising entertainment enough. The games are slow and too dominated by debates between the officials.
In Europe and the UK soccer dominates. In Australasia and the Pacific it’s NRL and in the USA it’s NFL and NBA.
Rugby with its slow games and baffling decisions is getting less and less of a look in.
It’s only really South Africa and Ireland where the game seems to be growing.
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World Rugby won't grow the game by chucking money and token games at tier twos, it will grow by making a better product. Professional sport is entertainment, sucking all Joie de vivre out of the game to engineer a result is only going to keep only a certain sect of diehards happy.
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There should be a big conversation about head shots among other things. The reffing of head shots has been inconsistent all tournament and world rugby got the perfect storm in the final, two head shots reffed differently resulting in losing a player for 60 odd minutes and one for 10.
Before the tournament both would have been red, in the first week, both would have been red, then the interpretation became more desperate to keep players on the field. As far as the latter stages go, I wasn’t surprised by either decision. It’s a really horrible problem to solve, as they have to stop head shots, but unless they fundamentally change the tackle height law these things are going to happen.
On the style of the game itself, someone mentioned in the game thread that we will be turning new spectators off, well, my dad who’s watched rugby for 80 odd years and played a high standard can’t really be fucked with it anymore. So many technical interpretations, so much reward for up and unders, and so much risk in holding onto the ball and being tackled behind the gain line, so many opportunities for teams to maintain a defensive intensity through slowing the game down and swapping out players around the ruck. Need to have a look at the sub laws, there are too many and too much gaming of them. Bongi did not go off for a tactical sub, how on earth could that decision be allowed. Also, too much reward for having a better scrum, you don’t get a penalty awarded against you anywhere else for not being as good at a technical skill, trouble is, if you remove the jeopardy then you encourage an extra three loose forwards on the pitch further reducing the space for attacking play. Again, reducing subs feels like a better option than solely changing the punishment.
The TMO is a weird problem, once you involve tech, then accepting bad decisions becomes harder and harder, as a result you have TMOs going back to intervene in phases leading up to tries etc - if you don’t though, you have huge complaints afterwards that the wrong decision was made in the build up.
I don’t know how to solve most of these, but rugby is risking eating itself and losing fans left right and centre.
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@Dodge said in The Current State of Rugby:
There should be a big conversation about head shots among other things. The reffing of head shots has been inconsistent all tournament and world rugby got the perfect storm in the final, two head shots reffed differently resulting in losing a player for 60 odd minutes and one for 10.
Before the tournament both would have been red, in the first week, both would have been red, then the interpretation became more desperate to keep players on the field. As far as the latter stages go, I wasn’t surprised by either decision. It’s a really horrible problem to solve, as they have to stop head shots, but unless they fundamentally change the tackle height law these things are going to happen.
On the style of the game itself, someone mentioned in the game thread that we will be turning new spectators off, well, my dad who’s watched rugby for 80 odd years and played a high standard can’t really be fucked with it anymore. So many technical interpretations, so much reward for up and unders, and so much risk in holding onto the ball and being tackled behind the gain line, so many opportunities for teams to maintain a defensive intensity through slowing the game down and swapping out players around the ruck. Need to have a look at the sub laws, there are too many and too much gaming of them. Bongi did not go off for a tactical sub, how on earth could that decision be allowed. Also, too much reward for having a better scrum, you don’t get a penalty awarded against you anywhere else for not being as good at a technical skill, trouble is, if you remove the jeopardy then you encourage an extra three loose forwards on the pitch further reducing the space for attacking play. Again, reducing subs feels like a better option than solely changing the punishment.
The TMO is a weird problem, once you involve tech, then accepting bad decisions becomes harder and harder, as a result you have TMOs going back to intervene in phases leading up to tries etc - if you don’t though, you have huge complaints afterwards that the wrong decision was made in the build up.
I don’t know how to solve most of these, but rugby is risking eating itself and losing fans left right and centre.
I have posted this elsewhere, but 2 weeks ago Etzebeth ran in and gave Atonio a flying headbutt but only got a yellow card. This week, and Cane gets a red for something less dangerous. Were the rules applied equally from week-to-week, Cane would have been on the sidelines for 10 mins or Etzebeth would not have been playing in that match. In either case, you can accept it because at least everyone knows where they stand from week-to-week. But the current situation is farcical.
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Rugby seems to have a bob each way on the head knocks. At least League is slightly transparent about where and when it will go all State of Origin on selectively enforcing the rules...
Changing from week to week - or hoping that concussion symptoms and CTE dementia can also magically recognise "mitigating factors" in head knocks - isn't going to do much for either players or for spectators....
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Two weeks after the greatest weekend of rugby ever, this match, unfortunately, demonstrated almost everything that's wrong with modern rugby:
- From the very first penalty, where Frizzel gets cleaned out by Kitshoff onto Bongi's leg and gets carded.
- Bongi then gets "tactically" subbed, which apparently means he can come back on (but Wayne never mentioned under what circumstances he could).
- Cane gets a red card for something less dangerous than what Etzebeth (yellow card) and the Argie bloke (not even a penalty) did 2 weeks ago.
- Barnes pings Savea, then accepts that he was wrong to do so, but does not change his decision.
- Kolisi gets yellow carded for another flying headbutt (consistent with the Etzebeth call 2 weeks ago I guess).
- The game in the second half largely devolves into 2 teams trying the box kick their way to victory in the hope that the opposition will drop the ball and gift them the trophy.
- Multiple interventions by the TMO, not just for foul play.
- A try scored off what at first glance appears might be a knock on but which the TMO - who's already made a dozen interventions - doesn't appear to check.
- A ref who decides to swallow his whistle in the last 10 mins resulting in some inconsistent breakdown interpretations, which will always favour the defending team.
- Water breaks for tired props, and the associated invasion of the pitch by "medics" all mic'd up to the coaching box.
The only thing missing were the scrum and maul penalties, but that was mainly because we scrummed and mauled well.
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@junior said in The Current State of Rugby:
Two weeks after the greatest weekend of rugby ever, this match, unfortunately, demonstrated almost everything that's wrong with modern rugby:
- From the very first penalty, where Frizzel gets cleaned out by Kitshoff onto Bongi's leg and gets carded.
- Bongi then gets "tactically" subbed, which apparently means he can come back on (but Wayne never mentioned under what circumstances he could).
- Cane gets a red card for something less dangerous than what Etzebeth (yellow card) and the Argie bloke (not even a penalty) did 2 weeks ago.
- Barnes pings Savea, then accepts that he was wrong to do so, but does not change his decision.
- Kolisi gets yellow carded for another flying headbutt (consistent with the Etzebeth call 2 weeks ago I guess).
- The game in the second half largely devolves into 2 teams trying the box kick their way to victory in the hope that the opposition will drop the ball and gift them the trophy.
- Multiple interventions by the TMO, not just for foul play.
- A try scored off what at first glance appears might be a knock on but which the TMO - who's already made a dozen interventions - doesn't appear to check.
- A ref who decides to swallow his whistle in the last 10 mins resulting in some inconsistent breakdown interpretations, which will always favour the defending team.
- Water breaks for tired props, and the associated invasion of the pitch by "medics" all mic'd up to the coaching box.
The only thing missing were the scrum and maul penalties, but that was mainly because we scrummed and mauled well.
I'd suggest we scrummed and mauled extremely well in the circumstances.
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The very fact we’re having this conversation about the increasingly restricted tactics in rugby union at this level and the increasingly high-profile role of the adjudicators tells you there is something rotten in the state of Dublin.
There’s nothing wrong with the Boks, but this style of play is what the rules produces. Constant box kicks, up and unders, scrum infringements, kicks to the corner and rolling mauls, and an emphasis on rolling mauls, are what wins games. Of course, all of those tactics are completely legitimate and well done SA for perfecting them. But there’s a clear imbalance there. And that’s a result of the stultifying rules that elevate defence over attack. As for the yellow and red cards, the rule-makers have lost their way. A completely understandable desire to protect players against head injury has resulted in a lottery in which there is no consistency - not only from one game to the next, but within games. Referees are not sovereign anymore. There is a constant voice in their ear second-guessing their judgement. I don’t think they can go on like this, but I have been saying that for years
