RWC QF: France v South Africa
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@Dan54 said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
@Dan54 said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
Didn't O'Keefe say he was clearly trying to hook it back or catc it. I did tgink his hand was hooked in front of the ball.
He did say that but the actual outcome from my view is that the ball went forward. The intent of the action may count for something but what actually happens matter.
I thought it was intention was all that mattered. If the ref thinks you are genuinely trying to catch ball it becomes a knock on doesn't it? That was my understanding, but maybe I got it wrong. (wouldn't be first time). Think O'Keefe said it went forward, and didn't he signal a scrum?
Worthy of a different thread but IMO the rulings on 'deliberate' knock ons are pants.
For me:
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Genuine attempt: scrum;
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Dubious attempt, disrupts attack: penalty;
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Dubious attempt, try saving, or blatant attempt: yellow card.
So EE scrum, Nuggie penalty, Owen Farrell yellow.
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@Dodge said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
its not just a genuine attempt, you have to be in a realistic position to catch the ball, i.e. sticking one hand flat out and touching it with your finger tips doesn't count. I think the current interpretations and punishments are perfect, its cheating.
In many cases it's instinctive. A yellow card for something which isn't risking injury or likely to prevent try scoring is excessive.
We need to get back to a position where cards are the exception in games.
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@ACT-Crusader said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
@voodoo said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
It would be so much easier if we just ditched the intentional knock-on rule. If you can get to the ball from an onside position, good for you. Most likely you're probably going to try and catch it, but if you can't catch it you can disrupt the play by knocking the ball down - if it goes forward, attacking scrum awarded.
Easy
All would be solved if they applied it the way league do it.
Forgive my league ignorance, but what’s the go there?
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@voodoo said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
@voodoo said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
It would be so much easier if we just ditched the intentional knock-on rule. If you can get to the ball from an onside position, good for you. Most likely you're probably going to try and catch it, but if you can't catch it you can disrupt the play by knocking the ball down - if it goes forward, attacking scrum awarded.
Easy
All would be solved if they applied it the way league do it.
Forgive my league ignorance, but what’s the go there?
Nothing. Knock on. Set a scrum.
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@pakman Kind of agree. Smith's card was a tad excessive IMO because there was no real try scoring opportunity. Gibson-Park was about to be tackled by 2 players and Mo'unga was clearly covering too, and there was no Irish support player near GP.
Etzebeth's would have been a clear yellow card and penalty try if it had been deemed a knock on in that scenario. The French were clearly going to score and his action was to slap the ball down/back - he never tried to catch it.
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@Bones I've not seen a great angle camera angle. BOK and his AR were, I assume, in better positions to make the call. I can't imagine it was excessively forward, if at all.
However, if Etzebeth had been pinged for it, few (outside South African supporters) would have complained. he took the risk; he won.
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@Bones said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
@pakman I've probably missed a lot, did EE's go forward? On initial watch it looked like he tapped it in front of the line and it landed behind.
It was borderline, but for me he tried to knock it backwards (hands went backwards) but it may have actually gone a few inches forward.
As much a yellow as Nuggie's.
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@Bones said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
@pakman said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
@Bones in my opinion, IF the protocols were sensible neither could have been yellow.
Knocking the ball back isn't even a penalty.
Like I said above, IMO the ball went a few inches forward, so knock on.
Argument for YC is that EE didn’t try and catch with both hands and affected try scoring opportunity.
I don’t like the rule, but it is what it is.
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@pakman said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
catch with both hands
I thought it just has to be a genuine attempt is the thinking? If there's absolutely zero law against knocking the ball down or back, I would rule it's a genuine attempt at an intercept (it was a realistic chance).
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I would be tempted to agree, but in the spirit of being nerdy (what can i say, i enjoy the mental gymnastics), he also raised his leg to block the passing lane, it was an attempt to stop the pass way more than it was an attempt to catch the ball, he did appear to try to knock it backwards but if it went forwards then i would have had no issue with a yellow card and a penalty try. Had that happened, the Saffas would have argued he was trying to catch it and had a realistic chance, for which i would also have had some sympathy.
I think this is a perfect example of rugby laws not being able to be interpreted in a black and white fashion and I don't have a problem with that
