Black Caps Tour to Zimbabwe
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="shark" data-cid="601859" data-time="1469930596">
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<p>Taylor is now 32 1/2 years old and has only played 70 tests. While I'm sure he has a few more hundreds in him to go ahead of his mentor, the late great Martin Crowe, he seems destined to retire not having played anywhere near as many tests or scored as many runs as I would have expected. For a guy who's been a consistent century-maker and averaged in the early to mid 40's throughout his career, he just seems to have gotten close to the twilight of his career rather soon. But I guess if he plays another 30 tests he will have played 100 and scored in the region of 7500-8000 runs and 18 or so centuries. He'll never be the most prolific NZ century scorer as Williamson will go ahead of him, but he should briefly be our greatest run-scorer until overtaken by Williamson. The flipside is, now he's well into his 30s, he could retire from tests early, or be limited due to injury and come up well short of where I feel he should finish on these record tables.</p>
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<p>Really weird post this one, he's a guy who would be second name on the teamsheet, currently averages 47 on the dot and is 40 runs away from outright third on the list of NZ runscorers. Considering only three NZers have played 100 tests I think he's had a fantastic career and it looks in no danger of ending anytime soon. It's not his fault the Black Caps never get five test series. Based on all that I dont' see how you could have "expected" any more ? </p> -
Not weird at all. I'm not criticising him or suggesting in any way that he won't deserve his place in history for NZ. I'm just saying he suddenly seems to be over 32 and the end is possibly not that far away. It feels like he should only be halfway through his career but he's actually at least two thirds done. As opposed to the likes of Flem who it felt like was around forever and still retired slightly early for mine. In actual fact he played for NZ for 14 years. Taylor has only been playing tests since 2007 I think. And it actually feels like less, to me. The fact is, he could bow out of test cricket next year at 33 having played for only 10 years. That would feel very brief.
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Is Flem from Canterbury?
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="shark" data-cid="601896" data-time="1469951174">
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<p>Not weird at all. I'm not criticising him or suggesting in any way that he won't deserve his place in history for NZ. I'm just saying he suddenly seems to be over 32 and the end is possibly not that far away. It feels like he should only be halfway through his career but he's actually at least two thirds done. As opposed to the likes of Flem who it felt like was around forever and still retired slightly early for mine. In actual fact he played for NZ for 14 years. Taylor has only been playing tests since 2007 I think. And it actually feels like less, to me. The fact is, he could bow out of test cricket next year at 33 having played for only 10 years. That would feel very brief.</p>
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<p>So 70 tests feels "short" ?</p>
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<p>Any sportsman in any sport could retire at any time.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MN5" data-cid="601902" data-time="1469953037">
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<p>So 70 tests feels "short" ?</p>
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<p>Any sportsman in any sport could retire at any time.</p>
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<p>Oh FFS it is perfectly clear what Shark meant.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="601898" data-time="1469952079"><p>
Is Flem from Canterbury?</p></blockquote>
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What has this got to do with what Shark wrote? -
Struggling to dismiss the lower order again.<br><br>
They're being peppered with short stuff, but to their credit they're literally putting their bodies on the line. They'll have more bruises on their bodies than wickets they take in this series that's for sure.<br><br>
Were the fuck is Ish though, and why isn't he bowling? -
Funnily enough, I was thinking that same thing shark.<br>
I think the difference is that Kane and Fleming started young. Both debuted at 20 iirc. Kane has been around for almost 6 years and he's still 25 (almost 26).. <br>
Taylor's been around for almost 9 years and debuted a lot later.. 23 going on 24.<br>
I think if you calculate the number of tests per year for the black caps, I think you will find that Taylor is basically almost the same as the big names such as Fleming, Kane and BMac.. <br>
Even the late MD Crowe debuted at 19. He played 13 years for his 77 tests. <br><br>
Lack of tests per year and him starting late are key reasons for this. Also it didn't help with captain-gate making him miss more tests.. -
Sean Williams scores his maiden test century.. the fastest test ton by a Zimbabwean..<br>
He is batting low in the order cos I don't think he was fielding when the black caps were batting as he was too sick and struggled to breath..<br>
That's probably why he is dealing in boundaries.. -
Oops sorry Crazy Horse I think I somehow gave you a negative vote or something when I was actually trying to quote you! Stupid app (or stupid user!) <br><br>
But yes you're quite correct. I could have easily used Vettori as another example of a guy who seemed to play for 50 years. But I used Flem. Next time I won't use a correct example if that person happens to also be a Cantabrian, because I wouldn't want to risk someone like Mariner casting petty aspersions. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mimic" data-cid="601922" data-time="1469957719"><p>
Funnily enough, I was thinking that same thing shark.<br>
I think the difference is that Kane and Fleming started young. Both debuted at 20 iirc. Kane has been around for almost 6 years and he's still 25 (almost 26).. <br>
Taylor's been around for almost 9 years and debuted a lot later.. 23 going on 24.<br>
I think if you calculate the number of tests per year for the black caps, I think you will find that Taylor is basically almost the same as the big names such as Fleming, Kane and BMac.. <br>
Even the late MD Crowe debuted at 19. He played 13 years for his 77 tests. <br><br>
Lack of tests per year and him starting late are key reasons for this. Also it didn't help with captain-gate making him miss more tests..</p></blockquote>
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Yep spot on re the late-ish debut and thats why his career thus far feels a little brief relative to his age.<br><br>
I'd love to see Taylor play on for another five years. But the reality is, he'll probably play another two or three. It seems these days that the likes of Australian and Indian batsmen often play until nearly 40 but our guys typically bow out of test cricket no later than 35. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="shark" data-cid="601934" data-time="1469962353">
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<p>Yep spot on re the late-ish debut and thats why his career thus far feels a little brief relative to his age.<br><br>
I'd love to see Taylor play on for another five years. But the reality is, he'll probably play another two or three. It seems these days that the likes of Australian and Indian batsmen often play until nearly 40 but our guys typically bow out of test cricket no later than 35.</p>
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<p>That might change if Hesson hangs around and we continue in this golden era. I think a lot of the Flem generation left a bit early because the Black Caps was a fairly negative environment.</p>
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<p>There have been a lot of assholes involved in the coaching and administration (and, I think, playing) of NZ cricket over the years and I think this has reflected in our results. Reading many cricket books there are a lot of people with plenty to be embarrassed about (going back to the 1980s).</p>
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<p>Despite Hesson's unfortunate start, he seems to established (with McCullum's help) a properly professional environment that somewhat reflects the way the ABs do things. Kane Williamson gives the distinct impression that he just wants to get on with quietly and modestly playing cricket, so I'm hopeful that the apparent culture change will be a more or less permanent thing. </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="shark" data-cid="601934" data-time="1469962353">
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<p>Yep spot on re the late-ish debut and thats why his career thus far feels a little brief relative to his age.<br><br>
I'd love to see Taylor play on for another five years. <strong>But the reality is, he'll probably play another two or three.</strong> It seems these days that the likes of Australian and Indian batsmen often play until nearly 40 but our guys typically bow out of test cricket no later than 35.</p>
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<p>Yeah but we won't know this until it happens.</p>
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<p>Good predictable enough win for the team, Wagner possibly hard done by missing MOM to Taylor.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="shark" data-cid="601932" data-time="1469961959">
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<p>Oops sorry Crazy Horse I think I somehow gave you a negative vote or something when I was actually trying to quote you! Stupid app (or stupid user!)<br><br>
But yes you're quite correct. I could have easily used Vettori as another example of a guy who seemed to play for 50 years. But I used Flem. Next time I won't use a correct example if that person happens to also be a Cantabrian, because I wouldn't want to risk someone like Mariner casting petty aspersions.</p>
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<p>It's when you contrast him with a guy like Alistair Cook. They both made their international debuts on the same day 1 March 2006. Cook has played 131 tests for 10446 runs and Taylor has played 69 tests for 5232. Basically half and that is all down to scheduling. I don't think at this stage of his career Cook is that much better than Taylor if at all, but when you have twice as many opportunities to play big innings your career is going to look much better.</p> -
<p>There's no shortgage of test cricket coming up though - another 13 tests by March 31. We're also playing next week, 2 in South Africa, 3 in India and then seven in the home summer - 2 x Pakistan, 2 x Bangles, 3 x South Africa.</p>
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<p>Before you can blink Rossco should be up past 80 tests and could be into second on the all time runs list behind Flem.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Chris B." data-cid="601974" data-time="1470004254">
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<p>That might change if Hesson hangs around and we continue in this golden era. </p>
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<p>He's re-signed past the 2019 World Cup.</p>
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.espncricinfo.com/newzealand/content/story/1019731.html'>http://www.espncricinfo.com/newzealand/content/story/1019731.html</a></p> -
<p>Okay I'm going to call it. Hesson has been the best coaching/administration change to happen to the Black Caps in my memory. I love the ethos and temperament of this group of players. Just as the ABs started their current era with the November 2004 French test, this side started the day after the capitulation in South Africa.<br>
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<p>It's been fun to watch them and the emotional investment is back, with a vengeance.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SynicBast" data-cid="602027" data-time="1470009887">
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<p>Okay I'm going to call it. Hesson has been the best coaching/administration change to happen to the Black Caps in my memory. I love the ethos and temperament of this group of players. Just as the ABs started their current era with the November 2004 French test, this side started the day after the capitulation in South Africa.<br>
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<p>It's been fun to watch them and the emotional investment is back, with a vengeance.</p>
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<p>I'll go the opposite way I think he is definately good and above average, but he is certainly overrated - but the tide was turning before Hesson/McCullum. Vettori who was a very pedestrian captain went and we got flooded with a bunch of test quality bowling options that we knew were coming for a while. Plus I think Kane much like Martin Crowe/Richard Hadlee has a tremendous influence on the others - well before he was skipper. When you have a world class competitor in the sheds its harder to play silly buggers.</p>
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<p>Rixon's overhaul was much more dramatic. Trist struck me as better than Hesson too - but he had the worst deck to play with. Aberhart/Jeff Crowe was my favourite because they were smart enough to compliment Fleming and let them do their thing. That era was still the most consistent quality cricket we have played in my life outside of 85/6.</p>
