All Blacks 2023
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2023:
Which is why I think all our best loose forwards are slightly smaller. All openside sized.
Kaino was openside-sized? And Read had decent height for an 8.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2023:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2023:
Which is why I think all our best loose forwards are slightly smaller. All openside sized.
Kaino was openside-sized? And Read had decent height for an 8.
Yeah Read played bigger than he was especially with the ball in hand
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@Steve said in All Blacks 2023:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
I know super rugby form doesn't mean much
But if I was in charge of picking the loose forwards
I'm picking Harmon at 7, the only guy in NZ rugby still hard at the ball
I've got Akira Ioane at 8 because I know he will get me through a defensive line
And I have Finau at 6 for very fucking hard shoulders.On the bench is either Ardie Savea or Sotutu to offer something different late in a game
I have height. I have balance. I have heat on the ground. I gave guys who are hard to tackle. I have guys who you don't want to he hit by
- FINAU
- BLACKADDER
- SAVEA
That isn't bad actually, def would have more energy.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2023:
The problem of having Savea and Cane in the same lineup is multi-dimensional. Grace (a real lineout specialist) or Sotutu at No.8 with another option at 6 would really be another arrow in the quiver.
Yes, Savea and Cane together, how many tests? They should be a smooth as silk combo by now.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2023:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2023:
Which is why I think all our best loose forwards are slightly smaller. All openside sized.
Kaino was openside-sized? And Read had decent height for an 8.
Illustrating my poorly made point.
Where are the new Kaino and Read? Virtually lock size. In fact both had been known to play there.
We've got Cane, Savea, Papalii, Jacobson, Blackadder...
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@booboo Vaa'i would be a perfect candidate to turn into a 6 IMO. Only problem is that he just doesn't hit hard enough in defence for test rugby and bend the line on attack when carrying. Can't comment on his lineout abilities at the tail as he didn't get the ball thrown to him (utterly baffled by that - did nobody learn anything from 2019 with Scott Barrett).
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2023:
@Steve said in All Blacks 2023:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
I know super rugby form doesn't mean much
But if I was in charge of picking the loose forwards
I'm picking Harmon at 7, the only guy in NZ rugby still hard at the ball
I've got Akira Ioane at 8 because I know he will get me through a defensive line
And I have Finau at 6 for very fucking hard shoulders.On the bench is either Ardie Savea or Sotutu to offer something different late in a game
I have height. I have balance. I have heat on the ground. I gave guys who are hard to tackle. I have guys who you don't want to he hit by
- FINAU
- BLACKADDER
- SAVEA
That isn't bad actually, def would have more energy.
Against Tier 1 EB is only really an option at 7 or bench.
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@stodders said in All Blacks 2023:
@booboo Vaa'i would be a perfect candidate to turn into a 6 IMO. Only problem is that he just doesn't hit hard enough in defence for test rugby and bend the line on attack when carrying. Can't comment on his lineout abilities at the tail as he didn't get the ball thrown to him (utterly baffled by that - did nobody learn anything from 2019 with Scott Barrett).
It baffles me too, why have a lock at 6 with shorter loosies if they aren't used in the lineout? Baffling.
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2023:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2023:
@Steve said in All Blacks 2023:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
I know super rugby form doesn't mean much
But if I was in charge of picking the loose forwards
I'm picking Harmon at 7, the only guy in NZ rugby still hard at the ball
I've got Akira Ioane at 8 because I know he will get me through a defensive line
And I have Finau at 6 for very fucking hard shoulders.On the bench is either Ardie Savea or Sotutu to offer something different late in a game
I have height. I have balance. I have heat on the ground. I gave guys who are hard to tackle. I have guys who you don't want to he hit by
- FINAU
- BLACKADDER
- SAVEA
That isn't bad actually, def would have more energy.
Against Tier 1 EB is only really an option at 7 or bench.
We beat South Africa in the 100th test between the sides with the following:
- Ioane
- Blackadder
- Savea
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@Steve said in All Blacks 2023:
Parsons makes a case for Jordan at 15 with Leicester in 11 and Telea at 14.
Brynn hall says Beaudy got 18 touches and ponders.....wouldnt you want Will Jordan getting those 18 touches?
Play our best 15 at 15 and 2 wingers on the wings. What is this madness! Next he will suggest we play a genuine 6 and that our centers get some time together to form a partnership!
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@mooshld said in All Blacks 2023:
@Steve said in All Blacks 2023:
Parsons makes a case for Jordan at 15 with Leicester in 11 and Telea at 14.
Brynn hall says Beaudy got 18 touches and ponders.....wouldnt you want Will Jordan getting those 18 touches?
Play our best 15 at 15 and 2 wingers on the wings. What is this madness! Next he will suggest we play a genuine 6 and that our centers get some time together to form a partnership!
Don't forget Parsons has backed Samoa to make the SF
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@stodders said in All Blacks 2023:
@booboo Vaa'i would be a perfect candidate to turn into a 6 IMO. Only problem is that he just doesn't hit hard enough in defence for test rugby and bend the line on attack when carrying. Can't comment on his lineout abilities at the tail as he didn't get the ball thrown to him (utterly baffled by that - did nobody learn anything from 2019 with Scott Barrett).
Yeah, have been keen to see him play 6 for Chiefs to see how he goes. But agree with your assessment.
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@ploughboy Sums up this place lol.
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Mark Reason today says the ABs need a revolution in the style of the French at the 2007 World Cup:
Reason, I think misses the point. Perhaps the real issue is not that the players need to rebel against the rules imposed on them by their coaches but more that they don’t really have a clear idea of what the regime expects.
With that in mind, it’s hard to avoid the suspicion that there is a lack of clarity in communication and that this reflects deep disagreement and division between Foster, Ryan and Schmidt about selection, strategy, substitutions and tactics.
Remember the latter two were forced on Foster by NZR both as a condition for him keeping his job and as a face-saving ploy by Mark Robinson. That resolution of the crisis in mid-2022 sparked a relief rally of sorts and a period of cohesion.
But the onset of the big dance in France - and the pressure that goes with it - may have exposed the strains in what was only really designed as a workaround and a quick managerial fix. You see that in business all the time when boards spare sacking a CEO by forcing a clumsy reshuffle over his head. For a while everyone plays nice, but the internal politicking inevitably kicks in, particularly when the boss has one foot out the door.
Likewise, while keeping his job against all the odds, Foster was so wounded and weakened by the events last year it would have better for the ABs had he been put out of his misery at that point. Instead we have this Twilight Zone regime. It’s a long goodbye reminiscent of ‘A Weekend at Bernie’s’ with Ryan and Schmidt eager to introduce new ideas but forced to drag around Fozzy’s corpse for show.
Yes, the ABs currently have issues with injuries and lack of depth. But the fact is all teams are suffering untimely injuries, France included. They haven’t turned into bad players overnight.
So I would wager that the fundamental cause of the ABs’ current malaise is a worsening split among the brains trust - division and distrust that was latent but which is now out in the open.
That in turn is poisoning the culture and showing up in the directionless, listless, hesitant on-field performances from a team that in other circumstances would have been much more competitive.
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@His-Bobness exactly what I have been saying to my son after these last two matches.
It seems obvious to me because players don’t just overnight forget how to play. -
@His-Bobness If either of you is right, we're doomed!
Schmidt was already part of Fozzie's team as a selector, though - and coached the ABs vs Ireland when Fozzie had covid, so he's more-or-less a promotion from within.
Might go some way towards explaining how we ended up picking five wings, though - if somehow the selectors came to a deadlock that could be resolved only by "picking both".
I'm a bit more inclined to the theory that we've gone in underdone and weakened. Almost no-one played any NPC games - and where most of the other big teams played two warm-up games, we played only one - which was a disaster.
Everyone was pretty buoyant after the Rugby Championship, which gives plenty of reason for hope, but we did see what happened when we played a weakened starting XV vs Australia.
We haven't properly developed depth - I think because Fozzie was playing every match last year with the Sword of Damocles hanging over his head.
Seems we're now in the odd situation where they invested massively in Caleb Clarke, but he's probably the third choice left wing, supplanted by two rookies - with Big Leicester starved of opportunity last year - and no realistic alternative to Beauden, who is definitely not the player he was.
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