RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks
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@Steve said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@Stargazer said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@pjay said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
No team plays like the ABs (and that is not a compliment). It is the height of arrogance to think that you have achieved some new paradigm in rugby while the rest of the best play what I call the ‘European’ way….and win
Who's claiming to have achieved "some new paradigm in rugby"?
I haven't seen any arrogance whatsoever. Just incompetence.
I think the arrogance comment is around the view a lot of AB supports have that NZ alway has he best players, best set up and best rugby thinkers
A lot of our IP went abroad.
And I can't believe O Gara was let into the Crusaders set up. We up-skilled the next (probably) Irish coach at the expense of a New Zealander.
Who decided to let him in?
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Are you telling me NZ will not produce any new talent in the next 4 years.
We always do.It just depends on how many.
Game plan and tactics with some new faces has to be better than what we have.
Strip it back and start again. -
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@Steve said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@Stargazer said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@pjay said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
No team plays like the ABs (and that is not a compliment). It is the height of arrogance to think that you have achieved some new paradigm in rugby while the rest of the best play what I call the ‘European’ way….and win
Who's claiming to have achieved "some new paradigm in rugby"?
I haven't seen any arrogance whatsoever. Just incompetence.
I think the arrogance comment is around the view a lot of AB supports have that NZ alway has he best players, best set up and best rugby thinkers
A lot of our IP went abroad.
And I can't believe O Gara was let into the Crusaders set up. We up-skilled the next (probably) Irish coach at the expense of a New Zealander.
Who decided to let him in?
I don't know, but it shouldn't have been sanctioned.
Razor I presume?
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Yeah I also think the issues are multi layered,
Foster can still be the wrong man for the job to go with the other concerns, it doesn’t have to be one or the other,
I also find our failures at u20 level a massive massive concern, our grass roots stuff which was always our advantage appears to be slipping big time .
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@Snowy said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
So out of 84 votes, only 15 of us saw that coming. I can only assume that a lot of people haven’t noticed the list of Foster’s AB “achievements” or just have truly “blind” faith that what had taken over 100 years to build has fallen.
I think you will find that like me, I thought we would lose but it felt wrong to vote that. Almost feels like you want that to happen if you vote that way. Head and heart thing was mentioned multiple times in the thread
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@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@stodders said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
The second 40 was an aberration though.
The whole 80 against the Boks was a aberration. I'd add we need to question why the lessons weren't learned from that.
"a characteristic that deviates from the normal type."
if it happens twice in a row I am afraid it is NOT an aberration.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
You only have to look at the U20 performance since 2016,
The high performace people of NZR kept on saying that winning wasn't the purpose, but player development was. If that's what they've been working towards - with some average to bad coaches being appointed (Philpott
) - they have achieved half of that: not winning.Add to that the impact of Covid and the lack of proper U20 tours like other countries do.
Hopefully, the new U20 Rugby Championship will make a positive difference. Still need good, new U20 coaches though.
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@Snowy said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
So out of 84 votes, only 15 of us saw that coming. I can only assume that a lot of people haven’t noticed the list of Foster’s AB “achievements” or just have truly “blind” faith that what had taken over 100 years to build has fallen.
39/84 predicted a loss. I doubt we've ever had a more pessimistic poll
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@Steve said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
Its a pity Stevenson and/or Jordan did not get more minutes at 15 previously.
We also severely lack a Levi Aumua type at 12. It's just a necessity in international rugby now. You need someone to cart it up.
Fosters in and out Hokey Cokey selection policy has left a fair few guys not knowing where they stand. Roigard, DMAC, Jacobsen, Finau...I could go on. It's all over the place and has been for a few years. Perofeta (1 minute against Ireland), Sowakula, RTS, Ennor. Rightly or wrongly loads of blokes got messed around. Faingaanuku was in the wilderness for a longtime too.
We looked magic against Argentina with DMAC and then foster just ripped it all up.
I cannot get my head around his tenure at all. He is all over the place.
yes you can, under pressure Foster reverts to his favourites.
But there is no plan B. Unlike France we don't seem to be able to shift gears, to counter the opposition's plan B because we don't have one.
The powder is very dry.
What is worst, quality 10s go into the ABs and come out worse. I am sure I remember a time when players return from AB training camps and matches and are improved players.
Lomax, maybe, not many others. Most seem to go backwards. Especially at 10. -
@Stargazer problem is, you see the play at the lower levels replicates those same issues we see at the top.
I'm not sure players are the issue, it's the readiness and mental conditioning as they come through the grades is the problem, and something we have long known, we simply don't seem to like playing the type of footy required to win RWCs, we still want to win pretty
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how hard is it to have good exits?
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@nostrildamus don’t worry. Next year the ABs have McKenzie and ????? as the options at 10.
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@Machpants said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@Snowy said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
So out of 84 votes, only 15 of us saw that coming. I can only assume that a lot of people haven’t noticed the list of Foster’s AB “achievements” or just have truly “blind” faith that what had taken over 100 years to build has fallen.
I think you will find that like me, I thought we would lose but it felt wrong to vote that. Almost feels like you want that to happen if you vote that way. Head and heart thing was mentioned multiple times in the thread
Yeah I voted for the win and stuck 20 quid on the win.
Couldn’t bring myself to vote for a loss.
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@Steve said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
And I can't believe O Gara was let into the Crusaders set up. We up-skilled the next (probably) Irish coach at the expense of a New Zealander.
You're - IMO incorrectly - assuming that O'Gara was the only one getting something out of his coaching stint in NZ. I'd say, O'Gara was already a very good coach and he added something to the coaching set-up of the Crusaders. They may actually have learned some good things from him, too.
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@stodders said in RWC: France v All Blacks:
@nostrildamus don’t worry. Next year the ABs have McKenzie and ????? as the options at 10.
I wasn't a fan of him at 10 but he slowly swung me around a bit. Played better in NZ XV though.
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@taniwharugby 2011/2015 crops had to learn that the hard way in 2007. It doesn’t matter how you win, you just need to win.
ABs and AB fans will definitely be desperate in 4 more years to win any which way. Then the real learnings can begin again.
