NPC 2023
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@Kiwiwomble obviously the PU's will have a vested interest in the status quo, or something similar that involves them and would fight to avoid being kicked into oblivion.
I think it is a bit rich for Robinson to come out and say it isnt fit for purpose when there has been at least 1 format change under his watch, continued devaluing of it as a component of NZ Rugby's system.
I agree that something needs to change, but I am not sure what or how to get somethign workable, and agreeable to all Unions while also complying with NZR's constitution around the community game.
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@taniwharugby said in NPC 2023:
@Kiwiwomble obviously the PU's will have a vested interest in the status quo, or something similar that involves them and would fight to avoid being kicked into oblivion.
I think it is a bit rich for Robinson to come out and say it isnt fit for purpose when there has been at least 1 format change under his watch, continued devaluing of it as a component of NZ Rugby's system.
I agree that something needs to change, but I am not sure what or how to get somethign workable, and agreeable to all Unions while also complying with NZR's constitution around the community game.
thats going to be the stumbling block...there is always going to be a "loser" if we have to draw a line between two teams
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@Kiwiwomble and that was one of the biggest stuff ups back in 2008, it appeared NZR had decided which teams they wanted gone (Northland & Ta$man) through some rather interesting criteria, which meant they could challenge the decision legally so NZR had to back down, and then they chopped and changed the format ever since.
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I have no problem with the 14 team format and think it is viable. The issues raised will be time and money. Why don’t they let the season finish later? Why don’t they make it a competition with some competition rules (salary caps, player pools)? key thing they haven’t done is manage the competition to make it a competition. Part of that needs to be a push for international transfer fees. The investment in players is huge and loyalty is being eroded by big money.
But all the NZRFU energy has gone to Super rugby. That competition for all the money struggles and the same comments re NPC also applies. The Aussie teams are sub standard and no one watches their games despite all the investment.
The NPC alternatives would mean the loss of the smaller unions - Northland, Southland, Manawatu. Ta$man would be there also but their financial backing, success of crusader’s franchise has allowed them import any number of players. Smart. Hawkes Bay might be the other.
The flow of players through professional pathways starts at school. Without a NPC side, Northland just becomes a feeder union and rugby for me would I think die in the area. Might as well play hockey, football. I would cancel my sky subscription.
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I have no problem with the 14 team format and think it is viable.
Thanks, you answered that question
First division NPC in the 1990's had 9 teams and had All Blacks playing
Taking away the best ~30 players and adding another ~150 players has had an impact on quality. Plus you need to consider the ever increasing number of NZ players that have gone overseas. This is spreading the talent very thin
It's a completely different beast to the successful competition that proceeded it.
That's why it doesn't make sense to pair nostalgia/history based arguments with support for the diluted competition
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There isn't enough money in NZ to pay 14 professional teams
Players will not make enough to make a salary cap worth it, and i think it will just speed up the exodus. Oh Canterbury can't afford me, i can move to Nelson for a little more, or Japan for a lot more. That's a pretty easy choice in many instances.
International Transfer Fees for what? Almost everyone who leaves is at the end of their contract. That's a free agent.This is a pointless exercise because many fans can't see past the end of their own noses. And this is where the discussion usually dies "i like this because it suits me, realities of the situation do not matter".
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@mariner4life said in NPC 2023:
many fans can't see past the end of their own noses
That applies to both fans who prefer their province to stay in the NPC as well as the big city dwellers who can't wait to ditch some smaller provinces.
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@mariner4life tbf, its the PUs who are self-interested (fans opinions count for little at the end of the day) for obvious reasons, while many of them are operating within thier means, I expect this is in part due to NZ payments from broadcast and other stuff that was built off the NPC success in years gone by, NZR kept saying they'd be tougher on those that live outside thier means, but havent...no win situation for both parties
And we dont really have 14 professional teams...all bar Ta$man
are semi-professional 
Again, I think NZR needs to decide if it can remain viable if the NPC continues down the path they have allowed it to.
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@Stargazer said in NPC 2023:
@mariner4life said in NPC 2023:
many fans can't see past the end of their own noses
That applies to both fans who prefer their province to stay in the NPC as well as the big city dwellers who can't wait to ditch some smaller provinces.
this is such a disingenuous position and i think you are better than that.
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@taniwharugby said in NPC 2023:
@mariner4life tbf, its the PUs who are self-interested, for obvious reasons, while many of them are operating within thier means, I expect this is in part due to NZ payments from broadcast and other stuff that was built off the NPC success in years gone by.
And we dont really have 14 professional teams...all bar Ta$man
are semi-professional Again, I think NZR needs to decide if it can remain viable if the NPC continues down the path they have allowed it to.
do not disagree, and frankly their job is to look out for themselves.
I realise we don't have professional at the moment. We have a red-headed bastard child of this horrible mix that just makes it all look worse.
I have been pretty fucking consistent on this for a long time, so i am not going over it again, but if you were creating a structure from scratch, what we have now is not what you would build.
Stakeholder engagement is everything in professional sports. Everything. I do not believe our current structure, or attitude, in any way builds that. There needs to be actual leadership from HQ (tough under the current structure) or there is a risk that the whole thing withers and dies.
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I presume that bitchy comment is directed at me? Isn't this what you scold other people for? Anyway I lived in Whangarei for a decade and know people who played for Northland
I think on the current path Northland will only have amateur rugby in a few years time. Under my suggestion Okara park would have the same number of games but they would be a higher quality
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It's clear who it was directed at
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lol can't be me then, as not only am i from Tauranga, i'm from Tauranga in the 90s which wasn't big, and when BOP were a Div 2 side and couldn't win shit
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It's clear who it was directed at
i think he's being honest, could also be directed at me, we have disagreed before about this stuff with the feeling being big city Dunedin
is happy to cast aside more regional teamsall my teams are underdogs (below the ABs)....every team i follow loses more than they win, i just want a competition thats longer enough that teams can build and grow and come back from a few losses and a competition that simple enough to follow easily and preferably has something keeping teams and fans engaged throughout the season
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@mariner4life said in NPC 2023:
lol can't be me then, as not only am i from Tauranga, i'm from Tauranga in the 90s which wasn't big, and when BOP were a Div 2 side and couldn't win shit
Can I point out that it is not a Hawkes Bay supporter that made this comment! Come to think of it HB had a far too long period when the same applied......................
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@mariner4life said in NPC 2023:
lol can't be me then, as not only am i from Tauranga, i'm from Tauranga in the 90s which wasn't big, and when BOP were a Div 2 side and couldn't win shit
Can I point out that it is not a Hawkes Bay supporter that made this comment! Come to think of it HB had a far too long period when the same applied......................
exactly it was a war in the era of who would get promoted, often to go back the other way not so long after lol
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@Duluth the All Blacks almost never play in the NPC. With more rugby than ever that keeps reducing. I don’t see having a wide base for NZ rugby as nostalgia. Currently all our systems are directing more money and more resources to the elite. That will only work in the short term.
The current competition has revived rugby in the north. Given turkeys don’t vote for Xmas, I can’t support a 9 team competition that would result in all our rugby resources being used to feed other Unions.
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The current competition has revived rugby in the north
But the current competition is performing poorly nationwide. It's gotten worse every year for what, quarter of a century?
I do think we are heading towards an amateur NPC if there are no changes. I think that will be terrible for most of the country and everything will revolve around the 5 SR sides even more than it does now
Resisting reform will not result in saving the competition even at it's current retarded level
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@SouthernMann the bigger unions who flaunt the 1.1m budget will think it’s Xmas picking off the best players in the struggling teams that’s what use to happen before professionalism
If you got relegated in this current enviroment , there will be absolutely no come back ,all your better players with either get picked off or look at the the option of moving to other provinces MLR ,Shutte Shield , Div 2 in Japan or France may as well become a heartland province.
Its hard to believe the Kaitiaki (guardian) NZ Rugby has allowed this to happen.
Get onboard with your community and reload.
