All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2
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@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
Best ABs opening 20 since handing Ireland a ¼ final exit. Frizzell was sensational in that period. Cane is also playing very well and I think it helps ardie having frizzell doing some of the hard yards. A bit worrying that SA came back we need other bench options then Vaai and papalii in my opinion. Jordan and telea are light years better than Clarke. We might actually have a chance in France, especially if we can negotiate our ¼ final.
Seemed to me the Boks were paying all their attention to Ardie (esp Etzebeth who was lucky not to be carded) and never expected Frizzel to be so dynamic. I knew Shannon had those carries in him but I didn't expect his distribution to be so good. He gets a 9 from me (a few mildly stupid penalties that if Akira had done them would have sent this forum into a meltdown).
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@canefan said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@canefan said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@voodoo said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@gt12 at least we are actually contesting the contestables now eh? For so long we were putting up those same short high kicks then barely even chasing them 🤦🏻♂️
Did you notice though, when we were being smothered and pushed back, we were just that little bit less able to contest as well as we did earlier?
That was the point where we should have put the contestable bombs away
The problem being though, we were going nowhere at a rate of knots, even going backwards. They had no idea what else to do. If only we had someone with a raking boot.
BB and JB can kick a long way. We just never utilised them
Jordie had a huge punt down the middle in the first half. Was pleased as punch with that.
There were a few very big punts last night.
I still think the contestable kick is all about unsettling the opposition. We recovered a number last night with some Howlett / Bender like chasing from our outside backs and even Mo’unga on two occasions.
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Can I just say that despite the scraps (esp in the first half) the Bok wingers played really well? And in the first half BB was pretty darn average as a defensive 15?
My favorite moments of the match were when Smith passed into the vast lumbering backsides of the slowly retreating Bok props and then the camera panned to them to reveal their "What the hell happened [moment], don't they know I am Mongo?" stunned expressions.
Oh and I think I prefer Narawa to Telea but it's early days. -
@kev said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@voodoo I've given you a slightly mixed answer.
I don't think Frizz is necessarily locked into the 6 jumper for the big games at RWC. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the preferred plan is still ScottB at 6. Shannon has given them another option to think about.
On DMac, I've never thought he's been much of a chance to supplant Richie this year, even though there's not that much to choose between them. He's possibly more of a chance to supplant Beaudy at fullback, but even then, I think not.
A bench of Christie/Roigard, DMac and ALB would cover most options though.
Christie’s first kick was terrible. But he redeemed himself by holding up their halfback in a tackle. Generally I think others are better but it seems with his work rate in general play he is now locked in.
Yeah - I thought Finlay went pretty well. Better than the previous week.
I thought Roigard really looked the business in Super rugby, though. With a couple of good performances in the bag, I want to see us maintain momentum, win the RC and lock away the Bled, in the next match - but, we also need to take a few risks and run a few experiments. I'd be inclined to start Roigard as one of those - Finlay on the bench.
Assuming the Bled gets locked away in Melbourne, Fozzie can pretty much do what he likes in the return match in Dunedin and the final hit out vs SA.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@booboo I'm watching the game now wondering the same thing. I personally think he's been very good. Just the usual suspects I guess who are so used to criticizing the guy.
Hard to pick any faults out there tbh.
Yep it's like that once there is blood in the water. Gets petty and myopic. But I would 100% agree on his exits and clearing kicks in general. Have been poo forever.
Having just watched the game I'll happily admit I was wrong about Frizell. There was something Kainoesque about him last night.
I think people are getting too defensive about Beaudy. He was fine today bar the odd miracle play.
The contention some people have is that Jordan and or Stevenson my have an even higher ceiling in the 15 shirt.
I certainly think Jordan does, and I want him getting his hand on the ball as much as possible in a game. Other teams may even second guess kicking to him.
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@Steve said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@booboo I'm watching the game now wondering the same thing. I personally think he's been very good. Just the usual suspects I guess who are so used to criticizing the guy.
Hard to pick any faults out there tbh.
Yep it's like that once there is blood in the water. Gets petty and myopic. But I would 100% agree on his exits and clearing kicks in general. Have been poo forever.
Having just watched the game I'll happily admit I was wrong about Frizell. There was something Kainoesque about him last night.
I think people are getting too defensive about Beaudy. He was fine today bar the odd miracle play.
The contention some people have is that Jordan and or Stevenson my have an even higher ceiling in the 15 shirt.
I certainly think Jordan does, and I want him getting his hand on the ball as much as possible in a game. Other teams may even second guess kicking to him.
Will Jordan is doing TODAY the kind of stuff that Beaudy did in 2016.
The crest on the front is more important than any name on the back.
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Does anyone know why they persist with Ennor? Especially with Proctor and Nankivell available as options.
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Jordan and Beauden are very different styles of fullbacks and it's worth noting they are developing an excellent combination (remember Beauden's chip kick for Jordan in Melbourne last year).
Jordan said post match Foz really encouraged him to play from the middle of the field so ABs I think are keen to get the best of both worlds - Beauden's play making and Jordan's speed and reading of the game.
The back 3 isn't a video game where you just input the 3 fastest players they need to work as a combination and they worked really well last night - Beauden's pass to Jordan before Smith's try, Beauden's chip kick regather in the lead up to Frizell's try, Beauden's cross kick for Jordan's try.
Beauden has issues (exits) but he was shithouse for the Blues for two main reasons, a) he was playing 10 and b) Blues attacking shape was awful/basic and miles worse than this ABs attacking game.
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@Daffy-Jaffy said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
D-Mac seems like a genuinely good bastard doesn't he
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@voodoo said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
So 2 questions:
- what does that Frizell performance mean for Scooter? Is he on the bench now? Or are we going to do the unthinkable and make a choice between BBBR and SW? I assume Scooter goes to the bench.
IMO Scooter is a bolted on starter. Either way I wouldn’t mind them rotating the other two to keep them fresh for the RWC, I just think the way Scooter has been playing they can’t leave him out. Whether he has a 4, 5 or 6 on his back, he is now playing the tight game at a high level that we need.
See, I don't like this thinking. I reckon with SW and BBBR ageing and playing pretty tight now, on top of Cane being a very tight 7 and Ardie being undersized, Frizells greater speed and ability to break the line is exactly what we need at 6. I would have loved Akira to have kicked on, but lets not start that debate again.
I like SB at lock when he is needed there, but I don't like him at 6 with the locks and loosies that we have
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@booboo said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Crazy-Horse there's always one ...
Good on ya.
I get your point Crazy. And my comment was a little tongue in cheek. But I had visions of the first talkback caller to the ZB sports show having exactly that half empty sentiment.
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@Dan54
@Crazy-Horse Mate most good tests are won in a dominant stage like the ABs had. It is very seldom I have seen a test between top teams where one team dominates whole game form start to finish. But perhaps I just to positive?There's always one bright spark who's more intelligent than anyone else and you're it.
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Havent read the last 10 hrs of posts as got some zzzz's
This is what I want to see next game
Game time for Samipeni , Roigard and Narawa.
No more defensive dinks from the Barretts
Apart from that it's all good.
One last thing, in the big WC games Aaron Smith plays 80 minutes -
@gt12 said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@voodoo said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
So 2 questions:
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what does that Frizell performance mean for Scooter? Is he on the bench now? Or are we going to do the unthinkable and make a choice between BBBR and SW? I assume Scooter goes to the bench.
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what does the last 2 weeks mean for DMac? I suspect that in the selectors eyes, the collective performances of WJ and BB in particular will have them as incumbents to start at 14/15, and they might see WJ as 15 cover and BB as 10 cover. Could be a 2-back bench with ALB and [insert a non-ginger HB here], or if we take a 3rd, could be a Narawa type (though probably Clarke knowing the reluctance to switch up). I’d love it to be Stevenson but that’s not happening. I’m any case, his chance of being in the 23 slipped a little last night I think.
While watching RM I was thinking about DM and wondering how he would be playing if it was him at 10 last night. Different opposition and all that, but there was quite a difference in how the backline operated last night compared to how they went against Argentina. I think I only noticed RI on Jordie's shoulder once last night, and that was in the second half. Whereas it was a regular thing against the Argies. Also it seemed DM was the first receiver more often than RM was last night where BB, and to a lesser extent JB, did that job a fair bit.
A result of different opposition or different playing styles of the 10s? Probably a mixture of both.
I need to rewatch the test but the biggest thing I took from it is how dependent we are on Will Jordan being Will Jordan.
Last week the attack structure looked much different, we saw Mo’unga on the loop and at second receiver a lot more. As you say, different opposition which is why it is frustrating to not see Dmac have a few minutes out there.
I’m very pleased with the win, but I’m not convinced that our game drivers did enough to get that win. I need to rewatch it because it looks like we are effective when we can play straight in the forwards around the ruck to get go forward and take advantage of Smith’s passing.
On the contestables @Booboo I’ve seen the podcast with Hall etc explaining why they are effective and I understand multiple reasons to use them (including moving around the backfield). However, the timing of when to use them has to be a consideration and we have a need to use the long boot (using Jordie got shelved for some reason, powder on ice?).
In both halves we had the opportunity to try to get territory with three minutes left, and each time BB chose to put up a contestable. Each time we didn’t secure nor interrupt and gave up chances for or actual points. On a cost benefit ratio I cant see why that is the right tactic. Its the first question I’d like to ask the coaches.
Good points, but I think we playing the contestable and backing our defence. I understand the tactic, because a; you must make sure you don't get caught behind advatnage line, and even going to rucks etc, after a few paheses you will get caught there. b; Do not kick for touch, don't give the Boks ball off lineout etc?
Just the way I see it. -
