Highlanders 2024
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I think this is honestly the first time since 2019, I can look at our squad without my blue-tinted glasses trying to kid me and be excited about our squad. There was a fleeting moment in 2021 when we picked up Alaimalo, but it was very fleeting. We have had 15 players depart, the same number as 2019. For comparison, these were who we signed for 2020V2024:
2020 SIGNINGS:
Jeff Thwaites, Ethan de Groot, Ricky Jackson, Manaaki Selby-Rickit, Jesse Parete, Zane Kapeli, Sione Misiloi, Teariki Ben-Nicholas, Mitch Hunt, Chris Kuridrani, Jona Nareki, Scott Gregory, Michael Collins, Ngane Punivai, Connor Garden-Bachop & Vilimoni KoroiOf these, at the time I think it was genuinely accepted that de Groot, Jackson, MSR, Hunt and Nareki were really good pickups, Scott Gregory and CGB fairly good, and the rest... well we might have shown brief excitement, but they are all a bunch of journeyman. LOOK AT THOSE LOOSE FORWARDS!
In practice, you'd have to say de Groot and Nareki have been raging successes, and barring CGB where the jury is still firmly out, the others were all abject failures.
Now thankfully, I think we have learned, because of those seven new signings announced today (Not Millar), I think there is real belief in all of those guys, but particularly Jack Taylor, Oli Haig and Ajay Faleafaga to be top top quality. Couple that with the others, who I think are crucially local and hungry, we are heading in the right direction. Sprinkle in PUJ and JRK, as well as the next best double-barrel name from overseas, and this is a squad who takes steps forwards, not backwards next year. I'm excited for the future.
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I think a fair goal for next year is to win more games than we lose, and make Forsyth Barr Stadium a hard ground to play at for opposition sides. If we win more than we lose, we will finish between 5th and 7th, depending on how the other sides up the top go.
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@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2024:
I think a fair goal for next year is to win more games than we lose, and make Forsyth Barr Stadium a hard ground to play at for opposition sides. If we win more than we lose, we will finish between 5th and 7th, depending on how the other sides up the top go.
I think we need some standards. I'd like to see them set a goal of winning 5-6 Home Games, and then the rest will take care of itself. We should make the eight no problem this season I think.
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The big problem is that basically none of the guys that the Highlanders have signed are proven performers. We've seen plenty of age-grade superstars tank once they reach the big leagues (probably more often than not...). A lot of these guys aren't even top age-grade players, they're just half-decent, and while they certainly all have potential, it's entirely possible (and perhaps even probable) that they're no better than the men they're replacing.
Time will tell, of course.
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@Mr-Fish Not every players needs to be terrific, but it is important that we build a core of local players... and I'd argue half of those guys do have superstar potential. Haig and Millar in particular. Faleafaga and Hastie both slick, whilst Taylor and Bell will be tidy. I think we probably need another top quality hooker, but these guys are all more or less upgrades on previous strategies. I'm not sold on Te Hiwi, but could hardly be worse than some of the other idiots we have had, whilst Michaels is only the third choice openside, so fits the bill perfectly.
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@frugby said in Highlanders 2024:
@Mr-Fish Not every players needs to be terrific, but it is important that we build a core of local players... and I'd argue half of those guys do have superstar potential. Haig and Millar in particular. Faleafaga and Hastie both slick, whilst Taylor and Bell will be tidy. I think we probably need another top quality hooker, but these guys are all more or less upgrades on previous strategies. I'm not sold on Te Hiwi, but could hardly be worse than some of the other idiots we have had, whilst Michaels is only the third choice openside, so fits the bill perfectly.
I mean, around half the players from U20 squads tend to push on and have decent Super Rugby careers - and maybe half of those guys are better than journeymen, or the standard of players that the Highlanders already have in abundance. So maybe 8/30 would improve the standard or the Highlanders (after at least two or three years investment).
Have the Highlanders picked the right eight, or just the eight that were willing to head south (or are already living in Highlanders country)?
It's definitely possible the Highlanders have struck gold but statistically speaking (and based on the recent recruitment calls made by the coaches in the past few years), it's unlikely. If it were the Crusaders bringing in five or so age-grade stars I would be a lot more confident that they had a) identified the top talent and lured them to Christchurch, and b) will nurture their talents adequately. In the Highlanders' case, I think that's probably a bit much to ask...
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@Bones said in Highlanders 2024:
@Mr-Fish said in Highlanders 2024:
statistically speaking
Waaaaait a minute.... aren't these "statistics" purely finger in the air by you?
Or have you got something factual you're basing this off?
I mean, I haven't done the leg work myself but I suspect that if you went through every Under 20s World Cup squad and looked at the number of starts each player got at each level of the game, then I think you would get similar results to me going, 'Alex Fidow, I guess he had an ok career at Super level, he goes in the 'decent' basket'.
From doing that over six squads, that's where the average numbers of 8 and 15 came from.
If we're being very technical, it's impossible to objectively say who has and who hasn't had a good career - but I imagine we'd all come to very similar conclusions with most players.
E.g. for 2016:
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I think it would be unfair for Gilbert to have to move positions again.
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@Mr-Fish said in Highlanders 2024:
@frugby said in Highlanders 2024:
@Mr-Fish Not every players needs to be terrific, but it is important that we build a core of local players... and I'd argue half of those guys do have superstar potential. Haig and Millar in particular. Faleafaga and Hastie both slick, whilst Taylor and Bell will be tidy. I think we probably need another top quality hooker, but these guys are all more or less upgrades on previous strategies. I'm not sold on Te Hiwi, but could hardly be worse than some of the other idiots we have had, whilst Michaels is only the third choice openside, so fits the bill perfectly.
I mean, around half the players from U20 squads tend to push on and have decent Super Rugby careers - and maybe half of those guys are better than journeymen, or the standard of players that the Highlanders already have in abundance. So maybe 8/30 would improve the standard or the Highlanders (after at least two or three years investment).
Have the Highlanders picked the right eight, or just the eight that were willing to head south (or are already living in Highlanders country)?
It's definitely possible the Highlanders have struck gold but statistically speaking (and based on the recent recruitment calls made by the coaches in the past few years), it's unlikely. If it were the Crusaders bringing in five or so age-grade stars I would be a lot more confident that they had a) identified the top talent and lured them to Christchurch, and b) will nurture their talents adequately. In the Highlanders' case, I think that's probably a bit much to ask...
A glass half empty approach is pretty easy to take. With 20 year olds we never know whether they will be the quality we need/want or will impact change.
Here is the situation the Highlanders are in though
- Established players don't want to play for the team which is currently the 5th best in NZ
- Quality players with connections to the Highlanders have taken up opportunities elsewhere
- The players the Highlanders have signed from elsewhere have not been up to scratch
- The Highlanders are a significant step behind their rivals in terms of setting up development programmes
- The current development programme is seeing players come through. This is a step in the right direction
- What we did over the last six years did not work.
There will never be enough talent in the south to hold up the squad alone. It will need strong recruitment out of high school, good culture and results will flow from there. This is just the start.
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@Mr-Fish said in Highlanders 2024:
@frugby said in Highlanders 2024:
@Mr-Fish Not every players needs to be terrific, but it is important that we build a core of local players... and I'd argue half of those guys do have superstar potential. Haig and Millar in particular. Faleafaga and Hastie both slick, whilst Taylor and Bell will be tidy. I think we probably need another top quality hooker, but these guys are all more or less upgrades on previous strategies. I'm not sold on Te Hiwi, but could hardly be worse than some of the other idiots we have had, whilst Michaels is only the third choice openside, so fits the bill perfectly.
I mean, around half the players from U20 squads tend to push on and have decent Super Rugby careers - and maybe half of those guys are better than journeymen, or the standard of players that the Highlanders already have in abundance. So maybe 8/30 would improve the standard or the Highlanders (after at least two or three years investment).
Have the Highlanders picked the right eight, or just the eight that were willing to head south (or are already living in Highlanders country)?
It's definitely possible the Highlanders have struck gold but statistically speaking (and based on the recent recruitment calls made by the coaches in the past few years), it's unlikely. If it were the Crusaders bringing in five or so age-grade stars I would be a lot more confident that they had a) identified the top talent and lured them to Christchurch, and b) will nurture their talents adequately. In the Highlanders' case, I think that's probably a bit much to ask...
you honestly sound like you're just trying to shit on the Landers...we were bottom this year and trying something new for us, we've had decades of either having a rag tag collection of journeymen we hope can play above themseves....or playing basically local club players...we hope can play above themselves...i dont believe we;ve ever brought through such a core of youth and put our faith in that, how about we just wait and see how they go rather than come in a start the doom and gloom early?
coming in and telling the bottom team that theyre bottom...and that rookies are unproven...is just an easy way to try and sound smart, i might head down to AB training and suggest they try and score more points than the oppositions...might be radical but i really believe it might win us some games
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@Tim said in Highlanders 2024:
this is what they suggest
not sure how urgent another loosies is, if we did i'd love to get Himeno back, hooker and 10 could be decisions that make or break things
I'm going to spend the off season trying to have no expectation for next year other than slow improvement, setting my sights on 2025 with this same core
AT A GLANCE
Highlanders confirmed squad for 2024
Hookers: Jack Taylor, Henry Bell, *TBA
Props: Ethan de Groot, Daniel Lienert-Brown, Ayden Johnstone, Jermaine Ainsley, Saula Ma'u, Luca Inch.
Locks: Pari Pari Parkinson, Will Tucker, Fabian Holland, TBA
Loose forwards: Sean Withy, Billy Harmon, Hayden Michaels, Nikora Broughton, Oliver Haig, Hugh Renton, Max Hicks, TBA
Halfbacks: Folau Fakatava, Nathan Hastie, James Arscott
No 10s: Cam Millar, Ajay Faleafaga, TBA
Midfield: Thomas Umaga-Jensen, Jake Te Hiwi, Josh Timu, TBA
Outside backs: Jona Nareki, Jonah Lowe, Martin Bogado, Connor Garden-Bachop, Sam Gilbert, TBA, TBA
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@Kiwiwomble yeah if Himeno wants to return for another season that would be cool, seems as though our other young loosie Will Stodart is set to join full time the following year
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@Kiwiwomble Despite the flack he gets, Irish Paul is generally pretty good IMO... but this article is a load of fluff. It doesn't say anything, and is nothing we couldn't really work out for ourselves. Only thing, is the other outside back. If we have indeed poached one from another franchise, I reckon all roads lead to Tavatavanawai, which I'd absolutely adore.
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I think a big positive with the way the squad is shaping up, is we are on track to have 38 players who are fully committed, want to be in Dunedin, but most importantly, are actually wanted by the coaches.
Reckon with the squad last year, coaches didn't really want Thwaites, Apisai, Banks, Koroi and Dawai (and probably a few others) but simply had to contract them because there was nobody else.
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@frugby thats probably why almost every coach needs a few years before they can truly be judged, it takes time to shape what can really be considered "their" squad, people like razor and even joseph (who took a while to win he made noticeable improvements straight away) are the exception i think
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Highlanders announce three new signings. Ratumaitavuki-Kneepkens, Dunshea and Sanders.
Not sure about Sanders. On reflection, I'd say that Sanders will probably be in on a one year contract holding the fort before Will Stodart takes the spot in 2024.
