Final: Chiefs v Crusaders
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Wow, the urban myth of the singular importance of that forward pass being missed several phases prior to a try and to the Chiefs clearing their line and having a lineout restart at halfway prior to the try, just grows. They had a lineout at halfway that they then didn’t defend and then had a 50m try scored against them.
There are so many calls that could be reviewed in any game (Jacobsen stripping the ball) so the rules limiting a review to the try scoring movement seem very practical. I think they work well on balance giving us a flowing game and a heightened focus on reviewing try scoring action. But like anything they can be changed and improved upon if there is agreement.
The case of the review of Damien’s try was always going to happen because it was “in the try scoring movement”.
But in this the media and all their commentators have done their usual shit job by headlining “controversy” and not providing any balance. They really just stir the pot and generally just do a shit job of being analytical and reviewing games. Specifically I refer to all the ex rugby players on the dime who don’t seem to do their homework prior to talking. I wonder if they ever sit together and talk through games prior to being on TV? So they can reflect on what someone else has seen in the game that they missed - a professional approach to the job of providing commentary. Instead they just give emotional reaction stuff that plays to peoples prejudices. Then they sit back and tell the general public off for reacting when they have actively fanned the flames. They are the worst.
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Oh, that is insightful, I am happy to agree with that. If the best players in the Crusaders team didn't play that night, the Crusaders probably would not have won.
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@nostrildamus Chiefs performed better given the circumstances, 22 of the Crusaders 25 points were scored against 14 men, 3 yellow cards, roughly 1/2 the match disadvantaged, Crusaders looked clueless whenever the Chiefs had a full compliment.
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@nostrildamus said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Oh, that is insightful, I am happy to agree with that. If the best players in the Crusaders team didn't play that night, the Crusaders probably would not have won.
It’s a fun game. If DMac doesn’t play, Crusaders win by 20.
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@kiwi_expat said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@nostrildamus Chiefs performed better given the circumstances, 22 of the Crusaders 25 points were scored against 14 men, 3 yellow cards, roughly 1/2 the match disadvantaged, Crusaders looked clueless whenever the Chiefs had a full compliment.
Perhaps the Chiefs should've concentrated on keeping a full complement for the entirety of the fixture.
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@kiwi_expat said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@nostrildamus Chiefs performed better given the circumstances, 22 of the Crusaders 25 points were scored against 14 men, 3 yellow cards, roughly 1/2 the match disadvantaged, Crusaders looked clueless whenever the Chiefs had a full compliment.
Maybe if they hadn’t infringed the Crusaders would have scored prior. Using the existing rules the team with the most points wins.
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@kiwi_expat said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@nostrildamus Chiefs performed better given the circumstances, 22 of the Crusaders 25 points were scored against 14 men, 3 yellow cards, roughly 1/2 the match disadvantaged, Crusaders looked clueless whenever the Chiefs had a full compliment.
I think you meant complement. Given that, you are saying for those 3 yellow cards, 37.5% of the game (or for nearly all of it given ALB should have been given a red card), the Crusaders didn't look clueless.
I am afraid we have to consider discipline: the Chiefs made key mistakes and the Crusaders were ruthless in capitalizing on those mistakes and squeezing the Chiefs out of the game. That is how they typically play.
I'd have been happy if the Chiefs won, but they had their chances and their warnings, and they didn't change tack.
That shows even if their players individually may have been superior the team had a tactical or leadership flaw. -
I won’t and don’t blame the ref, but I do have a problem with the interpretation of the laws. The maul (especially stopping one) is a joke and that laws needs a reinterpretation soon.
All of that aside, had we kicked to the corner and held the ball instead of kicking for goal, we may have won that game. That’s not on the Saders, that’s on our game drivers who were still on the field.
Additionally, we played plenty of rugby in that game, so even though we lost, I don’t really mind that we lose to a team that can only really trouble us while we are down to 14. I don’t mean that in a bitchy way, just that I’m happy we could accumulate points 15 vs 15. If we had better discipline, we would have prevented the Saders getting theirs versus 14, so that’s a huge work-on for next year. They deserve their win; they did better at line out time and in the last 15 minutes.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Says the poster who has been saying for the last 3-4 years that the Crusaders have “ruined” Super Rugby. Hard to take you serious when you comment on Crusader games or threads.
No I haven't. I've said that there are 2 big issues with super rugby. One is that one team always wins = boring and predicable. I would feel the same if it was the Canes. But would be less vocal about it (the other of course is weak Aussie teams).
NZR could easily address this issue by making all teams pick up a bigger share of the ABs salary (with a bigger player budget to compensate). This would stop the top teams picking up the best young players as required. And the weaker team struggling to attract players. But it doesn't suit NZR to do this as their focus is 100% on the AB's. There must be other solutions too but NZR aren't interested. So NZR is to blame for this issue not the Crusaders. Your team can't be blamed for using a system to your advantage
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@Chris-B said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
The better team on paper or the better team on the night?
The better team during the season. And but for poor discipline (most likely this reason) and / or the ref being against them whether fair or not the better team on the night.
Similar to a team beating the Crusaders. It could be the Crusaders were overall the better team but say an injury to a key player and poor discipline (resulting in one yellow card) let them down.
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@Canerbry said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
There were two "shockers" by the ref tonight. ALB should have gotten a red, which would have had a major impact on the game, and a missed forward pass several phases before a try was scored, which would have had a marginal impact on the match at the time.
All of the rest were pretty normal ruby calls, nothing to call the WAHHHHHHHHAMBULANCE about.
You can't blame the red card on BOK. What the TMO was thinking is a different matter!
To get some idea of the impact of the forward pass, recall that Jesters went from conceding try to penalty on half way. Even Bryn Hall on RPA acknowledged that (correctly I might add) saved the game for Jesters.
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@kev said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@kiwi_expat said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@nostrildamus Chiefs performed better given the circumstances, 22 of the Crusaders 25 points were scored against 14 men, 3 yellow cards, roughly 1/2 the match disadvantaged, Crusaders looked clueless whenever the Chiefs had a full compliment.
Using the existing rules the team with the most points wins.
You're behind the times, Kev. Apparently, once there's a forward pass, any inconvenient rules, facts or events can be discarded!
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In the history of stupid shit I have read on the Fern
And that's quite some history over the past 15-odd years
The last 10 pages is right up there
Have a fucking look at yourselves.
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@Cyclops said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Why is everyone acting like the on field officials had no idea about Dmac being offside? The ref and touchie seemed to immediately be talking about it and specifically called it out when referring in to the tmo. If there was no tmo then I think that try still gets called back based on what the touch judge saw. As others have pointed out, the markings on the field made it really blatant that he wasn't back 10.
Everyone?
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Fuck me, the Chiefs blew this game and like @game_film says above, the Saders found a way. The ref, linesman and TMO are not to blame for the result. And just quietly - the Saders were on the end of some shit calls too.
If I was a Chief's supporter I would be gutted. They had every right to expect to win the final after consistently being the better team through the season. But that's the thing when competitions have finals. Sometimes the competition's leaders don't win it.
I would love to see the ABs play like the Saders did in the period leading up to Cane's yellow. That was simple, brutal rugby. They smashed their way up the field. Hats off to the Chiefs for keeping them out, but unfortunately for them Cane flinched.
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@booboo said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@Cyclops said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Why is everyone acting like the on field officials had no idea about Dmac being offside? The ref and touchie seemed to immediately be talking about it and specifically called it out when referring in to the tmo. If there was no tmo then I think that try still gets called back based on what the touch judge saw. As others have pointed out, the markings on the field made it really blatant that he wasn't back 10.
Everyone?
Fair cop. 'Vocal minority'.
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The thing that I like the most about this final is the ability of the Crusaders to ruthlessly exploit the Chiefs ill discipline and get the win against the odds. That's exactly what I want to see from the ABs - that ruthlessness has been missing post 2015 (mostly due to the player exodus) but we haven't been able to recapture it. In fact the opposite has happened - other teams have been exploiting AB ill discipline very effectively, which has cost us games. Razor was my 2nd choice for coach (I wanted Schmidt), but that does bode well for us next year.
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@Stargazer said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
@kiwi_expat said in Final: Chiefs v Crusaders:
Crusaders looked clueless
Only in your head.
The way the Crusaders ruthlessly throttled the Chiefs in the dying minutes with that unbroken and menacing line of defenders was a brutal and effective spectacle I'd love to see in the ABs tactics book.
