Super Rugby 2023
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Get on the phone to Japan, before Aus
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@taniwharugby get on the phone to broadcasters for a ten year deal for a strengthened NZ only comp with ten teams.
Does it matter if it’s Hawkes Bay getting smashed or the Reds?
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@taniwharugby said in Super Rugby 2023:
Get on the phone to Japan, before Aus
Weren't we recently just on the phone to Japan? That might be what set Kim Jong Mclennan off.
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@Kirwan said in Super Rugby 2023:
@taniwharugby get on the phone to broadcasters for a ten year deal for a strengthened NZ only comp with ten teams.
Does it matter if it’s Hawkes Bay getting smashed or the Reds?
i know we rely on a lot of players from hawkes bay but we dont spell Otago like that just yet ;o)
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If we want to control our own destiny then we should take the opportunity of the ability gap between us and Oz and go it alone.
Agree with changing the model. Take 10 franchises and allow imports.
We can always put some rules around protecting the top 150 odd players in the country.
We need to create a saleable product given our timezone (in the way that football does). One that a package can be sold to Japan/US.
Encourage the use of imports from the cream of those countries to increase interest.
Oz can decide whether to allow their players in.
10 top line teams will take a while to settle so some distribution of talent may be required.- Existing 5 franchises
- Drua
- MP with an ability to bolster team with imports (including Oz based PI players if they wish to target them)
- 3 more bases. Geographically it would be ideal to slice the Chiefs in half but probably more likely that Taranaki is one new base. HB another. Splitting Auckland in two would make a lot of sense to create a proper derby situation (a Rangers/Celtic, Hibs/Hearts, Man U, Man C type thing)
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NZs struggling to support 5 or 6 teams now. Add three more and it might be too big a cost. I think we must continue to work with aust. I know there's a major issue with them with too many teams. But NZ need to sort ourselves out first. To ensure the Highlander and MP are much stronger. And one team doesn't always win it. Is NZR can't do this how will they achieve more equal teams with even more teams
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@Winger said in Super Rugby 2023:
NZs struggling to support 5 or 6 teams now. Add three more and it might be too big a cost. I think we must continue to work with aust. I know there's a major issue with them with too many teams. But NZ need to sort ourselves out first. To ensure the Highlander and MP are much stronger. And one team doesn't always win it. Is NZR can't do this how will they achieve more equal teams with even more teams
The inequity is with Oz though and it is becoming apparent that they see their future with internal comps only. They get better crowds and more engagement.
10 teams is 350 players.
We comfortably have half of those to supply into the pot, if not a little more.
Drua supply 10%, MP maybe 5%. That leaves say 25% of rosters to be filled with imports 90-100 players from Japan, Oz and US. Probably some Saffas and Argies too plus a handful of Europeans. They can be a mixture of upcomers, oldtimers and experience seekers.
I reckon you'd fill it if the marketing was independent from teams, the recruitment was innovative etc.
Our point of difference would be targeting US/Japan. If a new franchise got a hold of a couple of popular top Japan players they could sell the hell out of jerseys etc if they were allowed to do deals outside of the adidas one.
Yep, it's a think big strategy but it does have some foundation. We have a history for quality and coaching ability. We play a style that is more exciting etc -
we fan may also need to lower our expectations for a few years, spread the tallent a bit and over time the over all skill level will come back up
what ever we do i think we need to commit to it long term (and so we need to pick something that works with that)...the great sporting comps generally have history, we're never going to build that if we keep chopping and changing, adding 1-2 teams every so often can work but the over all structure needs to stay the same, same trophy and name etc
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@Winger If we consolidate the NPC and Super Rugby teams then drastically reduce costs.
Crucial's idea is terrible. Just spread the talent across the existing top ten NPC sides (with a view to population growth) and leverage the tribalism that's already there.
That gives a spread of talent over areas like Auckland already.
The standard of rugby will be good, and more importantly, entertaining. The key is less is more, for a contact sport you can't have a million games. Solves player burnout at the same time, as well as travel demands.
Have fun Aussie.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
we fan may also need to lower our expectations for a few years, spread the tallent a bit and over time the over all skill level will come back up
Agree. Some big franchises may have to share some depth around as well, but that can be achieved with a player market. Get a monetary return on players you develop but also bank value for the good ones. .
what ever we do i think we need to commit to it long term (and so we need to pick something that works with that)...the great sporting comps generally have history, we're never going to build that if we keep chopping and changing, adding 1-2 teams every so often can work but the over all structure needs to stay the same, same trophy and name etc
It’s a full reset proposition. I would ditch the “Super” moniker (tarnished), keep existing franchise names and put the other franchises out to market
Super will never stop fiddling because of the make up of countries and governance. Case in point the convicts reneging and not accepting a loss of power in trade for a better comp. -
@Crucial yeah, ditch super, seems like a weak flex now compared to super 12 days
i'd re brand them all so it at least appeared like everyone was starting from the same point plus we can get rid of the horribly 90's logos/names, remove any stigma from selecting a new team to support in areas being carved out of existing franchises
My first choice is like @Kirwan says, reinvest in the NPC, make it shiny enough to sell but call back to the history thats already there, make the Ranfurly shield a bigger deal (our version of the FA cup)
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@Kirwan I’m happy to hear feedback to my idea (and it is just an off the cuff idea I’m still thinking through)
My concern with the top ten NPC proposal is that it will kill the provinces not in the top 10. The top ten may not have the required geographical spread either.
Most of all, what would the selling point be outside of piddly little NZ? How would it generate enough money to stop a player drain? -
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Crucial yeah, ditch super, seems like a weak flex now compared to super 12 days
i'd re brand them all so it at least appeared like everyone was starting from the same point plus we can get rid of the horribly 90's logos/names, remove any stigma from selecting a new team to support in areas being carved out of existing franchises
That could have advantages.
I guess the concern with starting completely fresh is that there is no longer any proven setups or fan groups to attract financiers.
Then again fresh starts does put everyone on a even position. -
@Crucial Selling point is no worse that what you've proposed, except NZ provinces will be a stronger competition.
MP, Drua, Japanese, US clubs or players are weaker than most if not all NPC sides bolstered with Super Rugby players and ABs.
The first order of business is a strong and entertaining comp. Second is affordable, streamlined structure that supports player longevitiy and the international pathway.
We can't be all things to all people.
And perhaps there is revenue to be had outside the normal broadcasting model if it can't be sold as a traditional package everywhere, with options online or on Apple TV streaming.
The latter is looking at innovative broadcast options and have been having trouble convincing NFL and MLB to try new things. Let them experiment with Rugby, for a price.
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is the a compromise, give unions the chance to go it alone but if Otago and southland (for example) realise theyre too small to go it alone they can go up as "Otago Southland Rugby"
que central vikings jokes but thats effectively what the Highlanders are hiding behind a different logo and it worked for Ta$man
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@Kirwan said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Crucial Selling point is no worse that what you've proposed, except NZ provinces will be a stronger competition.
MP, Drua, Japanese, US clubs or players are weaker than most if not all NPC sides bolstered with Super Rugby players and ABs.
The first order of business is a strong and entertaining comp. Second is affordable, streamlined structure that supports player longevitiy and the international pathway.
We can't be all things to all people.
And perhaps there is revenue to be had outside the normal broadcasting model if it can't be sold as a traditional package everywhere, with options online or on Apple TV streaming.
The latter is looking at innovative broadcast options and have been having trouble convincing NFL and MLB to try new things. Let them experiment with Rugby, for a price.
Maybe my idea wasn’t explained well enough as what you are describing isn’t quite what I had in mind.
The extra franchises would be NZ based (unless Oz wanted to run one from there eg reverse Warriors situation)
The link to Us/Japan markets comes from recruitment from those countries to help fill rosters. Totally up to the franchise how they want to position themselves, but it may make some sense for marketing if you picked a few overseas stars and played some pre season stuff somewhere else.
I like the broadcast ideas, that would possibly fit in nicely -
Expand the number of NZ teams, keep Drua and Moana (move to Samoa) in our comp. Split the Blues, Chiefs, Hurricanes, possibly Crusaders. Encourage private funding. Have the traditional provincial comp as the next tier and play along side with a later start. Could have a Champions cup and next tier cup to involve other countries.
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lol jesus christ rugby, why do you hate yourself? Just as Super Rugby showed signs of coming back to life, we get this shit again? Too many fucking egos in the board rooms of rugby codes in Australasia who just love hearing themselves talk.
On the structure, i was only thinking the other day that the Super level may have sorted itself, so we could look to build under it.
Why can't we follow the league model? (i know that's a dicey comment in a rugby dominated forum). Rugby League runs all three levels at the same time, and they flow through each other. Why can't rugby? Why can't club, NPC and Super all happen at the same time? And have players flow through?Look at league, and lets use here in Cairns as an example, a region of 150,000 people. We have an 11-club local league comp (currently having its bolstered by 3 recently top level rep-level players). Level 1
We also have the Northern Pride, playing in the Q-Cup. THat's level 2
And we are (supposedly) a feeder to the Cowboys playing in the NRL. Level 3And players move between levels. Guys not playing for the Pride go back and play Club. Guys not playing for the Cowboys come back and play for the Pride. If the Cowboys want to make change, guys from the Pride go up.
I take that structure and put it in to NZ rugby, to me it makes a lot of sense. Those only interested in the top level get what they get now. Those who want something linked to their home province gets that. Club stuff runs the same time. Players move between levels. It's actually really easy for guys like @Stargazer to follow HB players through the grades (Cairns product Hamiso Tabuai-Fidow from Cairns is playing Origin next week. He followed the process from the Pride's U18s side through to the Cowboys).
It's streamlined, easy to follow, and everything is played at once. Current NPC provinces get aligned to Super rugby sides to spread talent (doesn't have to be geographical, the Melbourne Storm feeders are in Qld). Probably cheaper to run too -
@mariner4life i guess the first issue with multiple comps at the same time is fans not always being able to watch all levels
right now we have club rugby on at the same time at super rugby....players and their families...you know actual rugby people...cant watch 5pm super games because club rugby doesnt finish till 530....we're currently making it impossible for actual rugby fans to watch the "premier" comp
