Will Jordan Unsurpassed Gamebreaker!
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@booboo said in Crusaders v Force:
@nostrildamus said in Crusaders v Force:
@Kirwan said in Crusaders v Force:
@nostrildamus did you seriously compare a goalkickers points total with a centre/wing?
Actually, tries too. You may have missed that. But you are the one to mention Richie.
"I'm a big fan of Jordan, he scores incredibly jammy trys but it's still early for him and he makes a lot of mistakes. He's at most on par with the Richie Moungas,"
I'd rather not. I'd rather compare his matchwinning ability versus mistakes against Richie if I have too, and, again, you compared him, but I don't have any numbers - do you?Going to take issue with you there. But not probably explain it well ...
Sevu Reece scores incredibly jammy tries. The ball bounces in weird ways so often for him, so bloody often I've determined they're not actually jammy. He just makes the ball bounce weirdly towards wherever he runs.
But Jordan is different.
Jordan, in my opinion, creates opportunities. The ball doesn't just bounce in his direction, he runs to where the ball and the chances are going to be.
Not sure if I've explained that well... or at all ..
um Kirwan said jammy not me.
I agree with you, Jordan creates things. -
@nostrildamus said in Crusaders v Force:
@booboo said in Crusaders v Force:
@nostrildamus said in Crusaders v Force:
@Kirwan said in Crusaders v Force:
@nostrildamus did you seriously compare a goalkickers points total with a centre/wing?
Actually, tries too. You may have missed that. But you are the one to mention Richie.
"I'm a big fan of Jordan, he scores incredibly jammy trys but it's still early for him and he makes a lot of mistakes. He's at most on par with the Richie Moungas,"
I'd rather not. I'd rather compare his matchwinning ability versus mistakes against Richie if I have too, and, again, you compared him, but I don't have any numbers - do you?Going to take issue with you there. But not probably explain it well ...
Sevu Reece scores incredibly jammy tries. The ball bounces in weird ways so often for him, so bloody often I've determined they're not actually jammy. He just makes the ball bounce weirdly towards wherever he runs.
But Jordan is different.
Jordan, in my opinion, creates opportunities. The ball doesn't just bounce in his direction, he runs to where the ball and the chances are going to be.
Not sure if I've explained that well... or at all ..
um Kirwan said jammy not me.
I agree with you, Jordan creates things.Oh yeah
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@nostrildamus said in Crusaders v Force:
@Kirwan said in Crusaders v Force:
@nostrildamus did you seriously compare a goalkickers points total with a centre/wing?
Actually, tries too. You may have missed that. But you are the one to mention Richie.
"I'm a big fan of Jordan, he scores incredibly jammy trys but it's still early for him and he makes a lot of mistakes. He's at most on par with the Richie Moungas,"
I'd rather not. I'd rather compare his matchwinning ability versus mistakes against Richie if I have too, and, again, you compared him, but I don't have any numbers - do you?Well we have veered off in to strange territory here, especially when I compliment Jordan for scoring what I call jammy trys, but another way to say that is to create opportunities out of nothing. He has a comical ability to have the ball bounce to him in a freakish way.
I repeat, that's a compliment.
I was just taking issue with the comment "in terms of pure gamebreaking ability, he is pretty much unsurpassed".
This has turned into a comparison of try scoring rates, which I admit did interest me so I took a pass through some of the current/recent backs. I filtered out tier2 and Scotland, because five trys against Tonga means absolutely nothing.
Lowest was Ritchie, 5 trys from 36 games against top sides.
Next was Caleb; 3 from 13.
Jordie has 13 from 38.
Beauden has 33 from 97
Jordan has 11 from 17
And top was Rieko with 29 from 50 (top because a lot tests and more trys, even though the ratio is the same).
So surprised how low Ritchie and Caleb were, it "feels" like both should be higher. But this is where you get in to that murky "gamebreaking ability". How many last passes does Ritchie (and even CC after a break) make?
But in short, I was right about Rieko being more of a matchwinner so far than Jordan. He might catch up, he might not.
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@Kirwan said in Will Jordan Unsurpassed Gamebreaker!:
@nostrildamus said in Crusaders v Force:
@Kirwan said in Crusaders v Force:
@nostrildamus did you seriously compare a goalkickers points total with a centre/wing?
Actually, tries too. You may have missed that. But you are the one to mention Richie.
"I'm a big fan of Jordan, he scores incredibly jammy trys but it's still early for him and he makes a lot of mistakes. He's at most on par with the Richie Moungas,"
I'd rather not. I'd rather compare his matchwinning ability versus mistakes against Richie if I have too, and, again, you compared him, but I don't have any numbers - do you?Well we have veered off in to strange territory here, especially when I compliment Jordan for scoring what I call jammy trys, but another way to say that is to create opportunities out of nothing. He has a comical ability to have the ball bounce to him in a freakish way.
I repeat, that's a compliment.
I was just taking issue with the comment "in terms of pure gamebreaking ability, he is pretty much unsurpassed".
This has turned into a comparison of try scoring rates, which I admit did interest me so I took a pass through some of the current/recent backs. I filtered out tier2 and Scotland, because five trys against Tonga means absolutely nothing.
Lowest was Ritchie, 5 trys from 36 games against top sides.
Next was Caleb; 3 from 13.
Jordie has 13 from 38.
Beauden has 33 from 97
Jordan has 11 from 17
And top was Rieko with 29 from 50 (top because a lot tests and more trys, even though the ratio is the same).
So surprised how low Ritchie and Caleb were, it "feels" like both should be higher. But this is where you get in to that murky "gamebreaking ability". How many last passes does Ritchie (and even CC after a break) make?
But in short, I was right about Rieko being more of a matchwinner so far than Jordan. He might catch up, he might not.
Is this the same Scotland that’s currently ranked ahead of England, Australia, Argentina and Wales ?
Christian Cullen will be devastated his amazing quartet in his second match have been discarded like that.
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@nostrildamus said in Will Jordan Unsurpassed Gamebreaker!:
I'd rather compare his matchwinning ability versus mistakes
Frankly, I haven't been that impressed with him against better opposition. In Hamilton vs Argentina he looked disinterested at times. Superb winger, but not sure I'd be starting him against top opposition.
Bigging up stats is like the All Blacks celebrating the most points in a calendar year, despite multiple losses to good opposition.
STill, Foster's going to Foster right
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@nzzp said in Will Jordan Unsurpassed Gamebreaker!:
@nostrildamus said in Will Jordan Unsurpassed Gamebreaker!:
I'd rather compare his matchwinning ability versus mistakes
Frankly, I haven't been that impressed with him against better opposition. In Hamilton vs Argentina he looked disinterested at times. Superb winger, but not sure I'd be starting him against top opposition.
Bigging up stats is like the All Blacks celebrating the most points in a calendar year, despite multiple losses to good opposition.
STill, Foster's going to Foster right
Jordan? I'd start him on the right wing if fit, Telea can keep him and Clarke honest, and whoever drops of form can watch him play instead. Telea makes similar mistakes to Jordan (why I don't want WJ as fullback).
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@nzzp said in Will Jordan Unsurpassed Gamebreaker!:
@nostrildamus said in Will Jordan Unsurpassed Gamebreaker!:
I'd rather compare his matchwinning ability versus mistakes
Frankly, I haven't been that impressed with him against better opposition. In Hamilton vs Argentina he looked disinterested at times. Superb winger, but not sure I'd be starting him against top opposition.
Bigging up stats is like the All Blacks celebrating the most points in a calendar year, despite multiple losses to good opposition.
STill, Foster's going to Foster right
That seems a more pertinent criticism but honestly, he's more of a game breaker than the others ...but I did enjoy the convoluted let us change the criteria as we go to make Rieko Ioane look better even though for the sake of fairness one should only count wingers playing wing...
I like Rieko. Good strike winger. But no longer playing there. So he can't surpass Jordan.
Back to Jordan looking disinterested, doesn't look for work like Reece, granted, but not playing in his preferred position and he apparently has had inner issues off and on since at least 2018.
At fullback there are other questions, but I'd still like to see him there.
Just as I wanted Ben Smith at 15 far more often than the AB coaches did. -
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@Kirwan said in Will Jordan Unsurpassed Gamebreaker!:
@SBW1 You know who he reminds me of? Doug Howlett.
from Wish
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@nostrildamus said in Will Jordan Unsurpassed Gamebreaker!:
@nzzp said in Will Jordan Unsurpassed Gamebreaker!:
@nostrildamus said in Will Jordan Unsurpassed Gamebreaker!:
I'd rather compare his matchwinning ability versus mistakes
Frankly, I haven't been that impressed with him against better opposition. In Hamilton vs Argentina he looked disinterested at times. Superb winger, but not sure I'd be starting him against top opposition.
Bigging up stats is like the All Blacks celebrating the most points in a calendar year, despite multiple losses to good opposition.
STill, Foster's going to Foster right
That seems a more pertinent criticism but honestly, he's more of a game breaker than the others ...but I did enjoy the convoluted let us change the criteria as we go to make Rieko Ioane look better even though for the sake of fairness one should only count wingers playing wing...
I like Rieko. Good strike winger. But no longer playing there. So he can't surpass Jordan.
Back to Jordan looking disinterested, doesn't look for work like Reece, granted, but not playing in his preferred position and he apparently has had inner issues off and on since at least 2018.
At fullback there are other questions, but I'd still like to see him there.
Just as I wanted Ben Smith at 15 far more often than the AB coaches did.What? You are the one who changed the criteria, I was following your lead. I said he was at best on par with others in the backline and you responded with the points scored (with just one player I mentioned), then asked for numbers.
Complaining about then getting numbers is a bit dickish.
And my god, how many years does he have to play centre before people accept that's his position? Getting weird now.
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@Kirwan said in Will Jordan Unsurpassed Gamebreaker!:
@nostrildamus said in Will Jordan Unsurpassed Gamebreaker!:
@nzzp said in Will Jordan Unsurpassed Gamebreaker!:
@nostrildamus said in Will Jordan Unsurpassed Gamebreaker!:
I'd rather compare his matchwinning ability versus mistakes
Frankly, I haven't been that impressed with him against better opposition. In Hamilton vs Argentina he looked disinterested at times. Superb winger, but not sure I'd be starting him against top opposition.
Bigging up stats is like the All Blacks celebrating the most points in a calendar year, despite multiple losses to good opposition.
STill, Foster's going to Foster right
That seems a more pertinent criticism but honestly, he's more of a game breaker than the others ...but I did enjoy the convoluted let us change the criteria as we go to make Rieko Ioane look better even though for the sake of fairness one should only count wingers playing wing...
I like Rieko. Good strike winger. But no longer playing there. So he can't surpass Jordan.
Back to Jordan looking disinterested, doesn't look for work like Reece, granted, but not playing in his preferred position and he apparently has had inner issues off and on since at least 2018.
At fullback there are other questions, but I'd still like to see him there.
Just as I wanted Ben Smith at 15 far more often than the AB coaches did.What? You are the one who changed the criteria, I was following your lead. I said he was at best on par with others in the backline and you responded with the points scored (with just one player I mentioned), then asked for numbers.
Complaining about then getting numbers is a bit dickish.
Any my god, how many years does he have to play centre before people accept that's his position? Getting weird now.
You decided who counts as opposition and which games to consider and that Scotland (who nearly beat the ABs) was part of the Tier 2 teams. Who can still threaten to beat the ABs by the way:
filtered out tier2 and Scotland, because five trys against Tonga means absolutely nothing.And
And top was Rieko with 29 from 50 (top because a lot tests and more trys, even though the ratio is the same).Rieko played a lot more, sure, for AB coaches who weren't Foster.
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every time i think we have created the dumbest thread ever
we find a new low
Will jordan is pretty fucking good
yeah, well you don't think he's good enough
what?
Reiko something!
Foster derp!jesus shit for all the talk about how much people love Super Rugby this year we do spend a lot more time talking about dumb dumb AB shit.
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@nostrildamus yes, I figured that five trys against Tonga inflated things for Jordan in a meaningless way. There weren't many trys in the Scotland column for any of the players, not a huge deal - feel free to add them back.
If we are considering a player being a gamebreaker, surely games against the top tiers are all that matters?
Not sure what Foster has to do with anything. Reiko has maintained his try scoring rate against the top teams for a good amount of tests. More trys, more games, same ratio as Jordan. Nothing controversial there I would have thought.
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@mariner4life said in Will Jordan Unsurpassed Gamebreaker!:
every time i think we have created the dumbest thread ever
we find a new low
Will jordan is pretty fucking good
yeah, well you don't think he's good enough
what?
Reiko something!
Foster derp!jesus shit for all the talk about how much people love Super Rugby this year we do spend a lot more time talking about dumb dumb AB shit.
It has gotton weird. Throughout I'm saying he's good, I'd select him at 14, he scores excellent trys. Just don't agree he's significantly better than the other AB backs, and the try socring stats pretty much show that.
I think I've even said he was "on par with". Removing my weighting for RI and he's exactly on par with him!
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@Kirwan said in Will Jordan Unsurpassed Gamebreaker!:
Throughout I'm saying he's good, I'd select him at 14
I'd take Reece over him at 14 personally. Now that Sevu is injured. I don't know who the 14 is. Probably WJ, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was anonymous in big games.
Clarke is a bit of a head scratcher; they're going to pick him, he's got huge upside, but seems to struggle to play to his potential.
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the main ability i think he brings that we're lacking is timing, i know we talk about his ability to get a favourable bounce etc but he is very good as spotting where he will be needed and being on a players shoulder at full pace at the perfect time, i dont mean standing in the line waiting for someone to receive it, i mean coming from a long way back and seeing who will be receiving it in 2-3 passes time, thats an ability we could use to turn slow ball into front foot ball
