Super Rugby - Who's it going to be?
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="597313" data-time="1468661753">
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<p>So Lions could get a BP and finish on same as canes, they will have same wins, so would that then go to the match the canes hammered them in?<br><br>
So the table topping brumbies(surely) and stormers both finish with less points than Chiefs, highlanders and crusaders....</p>
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<p>It goes to points difference I think and tthe Lions have a better PD than the 'canes.</p> -
<p>Lions/Canes vs Sharks</p>
<p>Lions/Canes vs Saders</p>
<p>Stormers vs Chiefs</p>
<p>Brumbies/Tahs vs Highlanders</p>
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<p>Lions just need a bonus point to go top and face the Sharks. Then the Canes and Saders will play again in the quarters.</p>
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<p>Brumbies just need a bonus point and will face the Highlanders.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hydro11" data-cid="597317" data-time="1468661916"><p>It goes to points difference I think and tthe Lions have a better PD than the 'canes.</p></blockquote>
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Ah ok, another daft thing IMO, if tied go back to if they played one another, if not, then points diff. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Higgins" data-cid="595665" data-time="1468113342">
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<p>Thanks Stargazer, so it looks like a Canes thrashing of the Crusaders and a close Highlanders victory over the Chiefs next weekend will see the Hurricanes top the Conference.</p>
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<p> :yes: :good1: :good: :yahoo: :drinks:</p> -
<p>If tied it goes to most wins, then points differential.</p>
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<p>They can't go by who won in round-robin because some teams don't play each other and some teams play each other twice.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="michaelmac" data-cid="597335" data-time="1468662926">
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<p>If tied it goes to most wins, then points differential.</p>
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<p>They can't go by who won in round-robin because some teams don't play each other and some teams play each other twice.</p>
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<p>I still don't see why that should prevent them from using head to head. If the teams split their games or didn't play you could just move on to points difference.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hydro11" data-cid="597337" data-time="1468663839">
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<p>I still don't see why that should prevent them from using head to head. If the teams split their games or didn't play you could just move on to points difference.</p>
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<p>I'm happy enough with points differential. Home advantage, playing off the back of travel or a couple of hard games, can all confer significant advantage to one team for a one-off game.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="michaelmac" data-cid="597335" data-time="1468662926"><p>
If tied it goes to most wins, then points differential.<br><br>
They can't go by who won in round-robin because some teams don't play each other and some teams play each other twice.</p></blockquote>They can and like wins, points diff, cards or whatever, if it doesn't work they move to the next decider.<br><br>
IMO beating another team is a much better and fairer way to determine who should sit higher than a points diff in different conferences, especially if they have played. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="597397" data-time="1468701223">
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<p>They can and like wins, points diff, cards or whatever, if it doesn't work they move to the next decider.<br><br>
IMO beating another team is a much better and fairer way to determine who should sit higher than a points diff in different conferences, especially if they have played.</p>
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<p>yep i'm with you. otherwise team A could be better than team B, but team B get through because they play loose attacking footy in a shit conference and put 70 points on the bunnies.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="597414" data-time="1468705413">
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<p>yep i'm with you. otherwise team A could be better than team B, but team B get through <strong>because they play loose attacking footy </strong>in a shit conference and put 70 points on the bunnies.</p>
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<p>But the rewards for playing loose attacking footy have been diminished this year with the new three try margin bonus point. Loose attacking footy could be winning a game six tries to four, which banks a bonus point under the old system but not under the new. </p> -
<p>This Jaguares/Lions game is likely to be huge for the final outcome of Super rugby - Jaguares can potentially do the Canes a massive favour by shutting the Lions out.</p>
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<p>Given MHO that the Stormers and Brumbies are rubbish and are going to get thumped by the Chiefs and Highlanders the Canes' happiest path to the title is likely to be Sharks/Chiefs on the back of an SA trip/Highlanders on the back of an SA trip (or just maybe the Lions).</p>
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<p>Their worst path is likely Crusaders/Highlanders/Lions in SA or Chiefs after two weeks in SA.</p>
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<p>Conversely, if I were a Highlanders fan I'd be on the Lions all the way.</p> -
<p>So, match ups for next week, is it straight knock out now?</p>
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<p>Away team logos around wrong way in middle 2 clashes</p>
<p><img src="https://scontent-syd1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13606790_1075473055822739_1785907253281014612_n.jpg?oh=1e6bde8a5743757af127ce7a42830894&oe=582FC9D8" alt="13606790_1075473055822739_17859072532810"></p> -
<p>They also look to have the timings wrong for the Brumbies game, that looks to be Aussie Eastern time, surely it is 7.30pm AEST for the Brumbies Highlanders game.</p>
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<p>EDIT - I take that back - it's a 6pm kickoff local time apparently </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="595843" data-time="1468198391">
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<p>Yes it probably is, but threads about Wallabies things don't tend to get a lot of legs here :)</p>
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<p>It is a good question, and I'm kind of conflicted about how to answer. No doubt, Australian Rugby has failed to a degree to grasp the "national jersey pride" in the same way NZ has. There are a raft of differences at lower levels that makes the two situations distinct of course (rugby league presence being a fairly significant one), and the ARU are trying to address pathways as I said.</p>
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<p>Ultimately, I think bringing back players in positions where we're light on is a good short-term goal, but ultimately we need to develop those positions ourselves. I'm cautious about the Giteau Rule overall - if it helps us win a Bledisloe then fucking awesome because that is a shot in the arm for the sport. But I didn't honestly think it would make it past RWC as a system.</p>
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<p>We can't develop players with less professional teams at the moment. We don't have a large enough domestic competition to support players coming through and maturing, and quite a lot of the time even our second tier guys are getting offers overseas, and not always for big money.</p>
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<p>Its a five- or ten-year process to get the new pathways happening so there are no easy answers. Particularly when you're involved in the pursuit of victory and that isn't always easy with the competition we've got across the ditch.</p>
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<p>The NZRFU made hard decisions years back about the NPC, and they weren't necessarily popular. That, and the right culture, has ensured the production line continues.</p>
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<p>The quality of coaching here is also not good, and has resulted in players departing because of bullshit like Richard Graham, which is down to our nepotistic, small-minded attitude to the politics of the sport. This includes club rugby which refuses to acknowledge the primacy of NRC as our chosen professional pathway. But that is a whole 'nother story...</p>
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<p style="margin-left:40px;"><em>"our nepotistic, small-minded attitude to the politics of the sport"</em></p>
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<p>The internecine warfare at Club, State and National level has been a feature, not a bug, for the whole of my time with the game. I have written about it here at length before, concluding with the observation that the template for improvement and success has already been developed for the ARU - by Eddie McGuire and Mick Malthouse with their successful ten year plan at Collingwood; and by Sir Graham, Steve Tew, a brace of provincial coaches and twenty six (26) unions. That's 26.</p>
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<p>It is not a difficult task but it is for Australian rugby's two cities, the NSW country union and half a dozen shakers and movers in each of Canberra, Melbourne and Perth. Some of those dinky little outfits have some of the country's most admired players on their boards - for example, John Eales and (for a time) Prince George at the ARU. They are part of the problem and always have been.</p>
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<p style="margin-left:40px;"><em>"bringing back players in positions where we're light on is a good short-term goal, but ultimately we need to develop those positions ourselves"</em></p>
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<p>"Selfish" young men pursuing good incomes across the globe has finally infected Australian rugby - the world has changed, it was always going to be so. David Campese's professional sorties in Europe in the '80s were a rare thing, remarkable. When the Mighty Woods lost winger Ian Williams in about 1990 to Japan we were dead set astonished - he'd just assured his place with the Wallabies for Pete's sake! <em>(he prospered over there, and in his career as a solicitor, establishing the first Japanese office to be opened by an Australian legal firm. He eventually ended up back at Eastwood, on the board with Brett Papworth)</em>.</p>
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<p>That was 25 years ago and we (and the other southern hemisphere unions) are still floundering about seeking a solution for something which long since ceased to be a phenomenon.</p>
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<p>I do wonder about the mythical pot of gold in Europe. Eastwood's own Matt Burke had a stellar post career career in the UK premiership and Scott Johnson became part of the Wales and Scotland coaching crews; and your own Jared Payne (who I rate highly) did well with Ulster and now Ireland.</p>
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<p>I suspect, however, that most of them find themselves in a much bigger pool enjoying much reduced fame and favour, surrounded by ruthless club owners, distant coaches, indifferent teammates, the unscrupulous and assorted barracudas - all alone and unprepared. A couple of the Wallabies' more recent wunderkind have discovered they are not always selected and don't hit the headlines quite so often and that will have hit their well developed self image like a Mac truck. Rugby is a business and I expect the overseas gig is not dissimilar to an overseas appointment with Citibank, in which one sinks or swims.</p>
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<p>As I recall the last contracts Sir Richie and Dan Carter signed were for about $650,000 pa, much less than those of the the Wallaby super stars. I thought then and I think now that their decision to spend their most valuable years in New Zealand earned them considerable goodwill and will serve them well for their next ten commercially most productive years.</p>
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<p style="margin-left:40px;"><em>"no easy answers. Particularly when you're involved in the pursuit of victory"</em></p>
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<p>Australian rugby has the worst of relationships with its fans - conditional love. Their primary interest is winning. There are few more desolate places than the 45,000 capacity Sydney Football Stadium when the Waratahs are doing poorly.</p>
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<p>The corporates discovered rugby in the mid '90s and they will just as readily shift their allegiance to any one of the other codes, swiftly. The traditional club supporter numbers have eroded markedly since my time in Sydney when a dozen mates would unhesitatingly travel to away games each taking our three and four children with us, and encounter our fellow supporters there in numbers, to a point where home games now barely draw a quorum.</p>
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<p>It is a difficult to digest the reality that Australian rugby does not have the luxury of Sir Graham's or Eddie's ten years of careful pre-planning. I see no other option, however, but to plumb the depths while the game rebuilds into a more robust and responsive being.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="KiwiMurph" data-cid="597486" data-time="1468714652">
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<p>They also look to have the timings wrong for the Brumbies game, that looks to be Aussie Eastern time, surely it is 7.30pm AEST for the Brumbies Highlanders game.</p>
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<p>EDIT - I take that back - it's a 6pm kickoff local time apparently </p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="KiwiMurph" data-cid="597486" data-time="1468714652">
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<p>They also look to have the timings wrong for the Brumbies game, that looks to be Aussie Eastern time, surely it is 7.30pm AEST for the Brumbies Highlanders game.</p>
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<p>EDIT - I take that back - it's a 6pm kickoff local time apparently </p>
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<p>I have no clue why the Hurricanes are kicking off a 17:35 either.</p>
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<p>EDIT: apparently it is 19:35 in Wellington.</p>
